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Old 15-07-2006, 18:20   #31
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Yes, some really good stuff here. Thanks. I am reading with interest!
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Old 16-07-2006, 17:17   #32
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I'm in the DDDB with a report. Great book--everyone interested in drogues and parachute sea anchors should have it.
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Old 16-07-2006, 18:37   #33
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Steve, Good starting point. Thanks.
Drogues and para's have been well discussed here, but what about storm sails? Should multihull storm sails be sized any differently than those for a mono? Is the drive too much with a tri-sail, and should just a storm jib be used? What are people running?
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Old 16-07-2006, 18:57   #34
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Storm sails

On our 32-foot cat we had three deep reefs in the main and nothing but a roller-furling jib. We found that running off we would gradually reduce the main until nothing remained, then gradually reduce the jib until nothing remained. Going to windward in much over 30 knots just wasn't in the cards. We first deployed a parachute sea anchor because we were running off too fast with no sail up and were starting to punch our bows into the seas we were overtaking. I think the problem on a cat is slowing up enough when the wind starts to scream. Ideally, I would have liked to have had a hanked on storm jib in the inner forestay for use when running off in bad conditions or when trying to make progress to windward. Forget the trisail--too diificult to set when it gets time to use it. I have only ever used a trisail (on a monohull) when I split the main and I wanted something up to steady the boat.
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Old 07-08-2006, 19:51   #35
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Dashaws book? I searched Amazon and didn't come up with anything. More info please.

Jim
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Old 07-08-2006, 22:20   #36
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Kai
On my Searunner I have a storm staysail instead of a trisail. This is probably due to the Searunner being a true cutter with the mast stepped further aft than a sloop or a sloop rigged with an inner forestay. Along with a main with three reefs like Kettlewell. That is the recommended combo for the Searunner with the staysail being the last one standing. A drag device would normally be used in combo with the storm sail to control speed.

Here is a quote from one of Jim Brown's books:" Experience has shown that drogues are effective when used in combination with a small storm jib. Conversely, they have proven ineffective without the storm jib. It is necessary to carry enough sail to keep the vessel moving at four or five knots even in the troughs. It is the resistance of the drogue being dragged through the water that generates the desired steering control. Besides steering control, the drogue also controls speed. Running off in severe storms without a drogue, even under bare poles, the multihull tries to overtake the wave ahead. This is to be avoided because, instead of the bows climbing up the back of the wave ahead, they may dive in."

I have not come across any info on sizing and how they would compare to a similar sized monohull. My guess would be that they would be similar in size or a little smaller. The multihull is more easily driven but you have to factor in the drag device also.
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Old 08-08-2006, 02:51   #37
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“SetSail” Steve & Linda Dashew websites ~ Cruising Central, Sailors Logs, Links, Dashew Offshore
http://www.setsail.com/

The Dashews have several books out, the best known being “Offshore Cruising Encyclopedia”.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...02817?v=glance
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Old 08-08-2006, 06:09   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strygaldwir

25 knots with the spinnacher up seems rather, ahhhh, ridicules. All the spinnachers that I have seen spec'd are light air sails. 1.5 - maybe 3 oz nylon. They are not going to hold in a 25 knots. I'd bring mine down at 12 knots.


Keith
When racing, we often carried the 3/4 into the 30's and the 1.5 oz into the 40's. Gotta remember the boat is travelling quite fast so the app is not that high. If you are sailing at 13-14 and the breeze is 25 our app is only 12.

Sailing short handed we (my wife and I) pull it down in the 20's.
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Old 08-08-2006, 08:08   #39
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When racing, we often carried the 3/4 into the 30's
zoom - the sound of thread drift!
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Old 25-08-2006, 08:31   #40
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Series SEA ANCHOR ?

I have not yet deployed it, but I have made a series sea anchor similar to the jordan. The concept is obvious and I was surprised no one thought of it earlier. The main problem wit sea anchor is retrieval so make a bunch of smaller chutes and let her go. easier to properly deploy also. I could never sea a drogue on a cat personaly (just putting a sock on a cats head ussually irritates it). The chute size (total area of all chutes minus some percentage for loss of eficiency due to multible chutes;ie one big chute = more drag than several msaller of the same total area) vs frontal area and wieght of boat (some wild equation exists for this part I am sure :-) is the real determinant of how fast one drifts when lying to a single or series chute. lots and lots and lots of scope but with the series, one never has it all in the same wave train wich is part of the benifit since irragular waves can throw the chute (single).
He who dies with the most toys...still dies!
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Old 25-08-2006, 08:49   #41
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WHAT??????
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Old 25-08-2006, 10:02   #42
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Some comments after scanning:
  1. The best sea advice is not to go out without a 5-day forecast, according to Herb Hilgenberg, our most famous free weather tactician;
  2. The modern sea anchors come rigged such that a recovery buoy is intended to be connected to the back-side centre, such that recovery should be at least a probability even in a 25 knot blow;
  3. The modern sea anchors suggest that each side of the bridle that connects to the bows of a multihull should be 1.5 to 2 times the width of the boat. This allows better stability and less sideways loading. It probably also helps a bit when deploying and recovering the gear;
  4. Practice is a good idea, but rinse and dry afterward, as a salty wet parachute in a bag may have a poor shelf-life;
  5. Regardless of your rhumb-line to your destination or on how wonderfully fast you are going towards destination or safety, don't sail in a beam sea after you're uncomfortable with it. It is darned hard on boat and crew morale. Bear off, or head into it, or deploy the sea anchor.
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Old 25-08-2006, 14:52   #43
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I carried a series drogue all the way across the Pacific (Australia - California) but never used it. While both drogues and parachutes have been used successfully, there seem to be a lot more failures with parachutes than with drogues, particularly in storm conditions. Most of the pros and cons have been extensively argued, however, one consideration that is unique to multihulls, particularly fast multihulls, is windage.

In a 30-knot gust I've watched Endless Summer pull a 10x1 chain scope straight to
the shank of the anchor. That's probably close to 2000 pounds. Minimum breaking strength on good 16mm 3-strand nylon is usually around 9000 lbs and working loads for nylon are usually about 25% of mbs. Force exerted by wind rises as the square of
the velocity, so chafe or outright failure of the rode, parachute or deck fittings is
a real problem as is stowing 600 feet of 18mm rode or paying for 600 feet of spectra.

For me, a credible plan for surviving a storm in a light multihull with a parachute needs to come with detailed estimates of the forces involved.

Weather Forecasts are Good

If there is fault to be found with Richard Woods' loss of Eclipse it was sailing into very bad weather that was (according to his own relation of events) clearly forecast. More generally, most of the world is covered by weatherfax forecasts that are very
accurate, coastal forecasts are particularly good. If you're coastal you have plenty of time to find a harbor, if you out in the ocean you have days in which to sail out of the way of bad weather. There are many many cruisers out with hundreds of thousands of miles and nothing worse than a gale.

-Scott
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Old 25-08-2006, 15:56   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smm
If you're coastal you have plenty of time to find a harbor, if you out in the ocean you have days in which to sail out of the way of bad weather. There are many many cruisers out with hundreds of thousands of miles and nothing worse than a gale.

-Scott
One cannot - repeat cannot - expect a weather forecast to substitute for an inadequate boat. Weather is still far from an exact science, and does unpredicatable things. Expecting to "outrun" weather, especially offshore, is a fool's conceit.
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Old 25-08-2006, 23:06   #45
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I can highly recomend using parachute anchor of the bow as we did sailing from Brisbane to New Caledonia on my last cat, a 10m simpson ground effect. After putting this out it was like being tied to a marina berth for the night. These are available from Para Anchors Australia. Also check out a book called "multihull seamanship illustrated" by Gavin Lesuer , he's done plenty of miles and knows what he's taking about

Dave
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