Multihull storm tactics?

[GordMay]

“SetSail” Steve & Linda Dashew websites ~ Cruising Central, Sailors Logs, Links, Dashew Offshore
http://www.setsail.com/

The Dashews have several books out, the best known being “Offshore Cruising Encyclopedia”.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...02817?v=glance

[Joli]

Originally Posted by Strygaldwir

25 knots with the spinnacher up seems rather, ahhhh, ridicules. All the spinnachers that I have seen spec'd are light air sails. 1.5 - maybe 3 oz nylon. They are not going to hold in a 25 knots. I'd bring mine down at 12 knots.


Keith

When racing, we often carried the 3/4 into the 30's and the 1.5 oz into the 40's. Gotta remember the boat is travelling quite fast so the app is not that high. If you are sailing at 13-14 and the breeze is 25 our app is only 12.

Sailing short handed we (my wife and I) pull it down in the 20's.

[Talbot]

When racing, we often carried the 3/4 into the 30's

zoom - the sound of thread drift!

[terabika]

I have not yet deployed it, but I have made a series sea anchor similar to the jordan. The concept is obvious and I was surprised no one thought of it earlier. The main problem wit sea anchor is retrieval so make a bunch of smaller chutes and let her go. easier to properly deploy also. I could never sea a drogue on a cat personaly (just putting a sock on a cats head ussually irritates it). The chute size (total area of all chutes minus some percentage for loss of eficiency due to multible chutes;ie one big chute = more drag than several msaller of the same total area) vs frontal area and wieght of boat (some wild equation exists for this part I am sure :-) is the real determinant of how fast one drifts when lying to a single or series chute. lots and lots and lots of scope but with the series, one never has it all in the same wave train wich is part of the benifit since irragular waves can throw the chute (single).
He who dies with the most toys...still dies!

[marc]

WHAT??????

Running downwind on a 47' Piver, we were comfortable with the spinnaker up, but... Oh well. It was an old sail anyway We were surfing down seas as well, so the ride was great.
Thomas, Who? Me? Denigrate?
Steve, I know you have the sea time on a cruising tri to know, so if you say they work, I believe you. The issue of concern would be will it work correctly and easily under the circumstances that it will be required? I guess the reall issue is how rough is rough? We were in sustained 20-25kts. Seas were about 10ft. Not, in my opinion, rough weather for this section of the Pacific.

[Michaele]

I find it very hard to believe that anybody wants to be pooped by big waves. which is what happens if you go slower than the waves coming up astern.

Although most of my experience is with monohulls, I would have thought that in more severe conditions the vast open space on the back of a Cat is clearly a recipe for disaster.

My 'bad weather' system is, having been through all the reefing I have and decided that forward progress to my destination is no longer an option, I lie a-hull and let the boat take care of herself. This works fine until the waves get really big and start hitting her badly amidships and then I lay out the parachute sea anchor from the bows with it's own warp shackled onto the anchor and considerable quantities of chain and warp fed out, then if possible, the 'snubber', attached to make the 'anchor' hold from closer to midships..

This system has always worked for me and the sea anchor certainly makes the bit of the boat intended to take the brunt of the sea - point in that direction and slow down. With a parachute anchor from the bows it really does make everything seem more bearable.

Having said all that in most cases laying - a-hull normally works fine... Very, very few yachts sink from being overwhelmed by the sea - what normally happens is that 'fear and fatigue' get to the crew and they want out - the boat is then found, after the storm has abated, bobbing about somewhere and absolutely fine - minus the crew.

Most boats are more seaworthy than their crew.

Michael

[Talbot]

Lying ahull in a cat works up until you are in massive breaking waves, when even a cat will be overwhelmed. There is a considerable difference of opinion about cats and parachute anchors. I suspect that the difference is between the very wide french designs where the width helps the effectiveness of the bridle, and the older british designs where there isnt enough width for truly effective operation, and you end up yawing around. Luckily the older british designs are more robust at the stern so able to use a series drogue which I consider to be a much better option anyway.

There was a very good article about a cat in a storm written by Richard Woods when he had to abandon his Eclipse. The boat left to its own devices survived the storm a lot better than the attentions of "salvagers" and has recently been towed into harbour. The story is in the archives here so do a search on eclipse.

This boat was the prototype of a new design by Richard Woods, which he was using for a world cruise. 34 ft, and talked about slowing down to achieve around 12 kts in his crossing of the Atlantic. Rumours are that he is extending this design to about 38 ft for more space for a family.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by Michaele

Most boats are more seaworthy than their crew.

Michael

I absolutely agree with the quoted statement.

I can also attest that lying ahull, at least in a well-found monohull, works better than you'd imagine.

ON another subject, Michael. A friend and me will be in your neck of the woods soon. we're planning to fly into la rochelle for the first leg of a cycling trip through south of france.

[Kettlewell]

For the record, the cat I used the parachute on was a 32-footer with a 16-foot max beam, but only something like 13 feet between the centers of the hulls. She would not stay bow into the wind with an 8-foot sea anchor, which I now understand is way too small for this size cat. We subsequently switched the parachute to the stern, and lay to it for more than 24 hours, with waves breaking occasionally over the entire boat. That is one reason I would prefer to set a parachute off the bow. A bridle kept our cat pointed almost dead down wind, making about a knot of leeway in 50+ knots of wind and big seas. Most cats will point into the wind if a bridle is used and the parachute is big enough. I have yet to read a complete account of Richard Woods' experience--does anyone know where there is one? I would not recommend lying ahull in a cat once winds build to gale force. At the very least it would be uncomfortable, and why not use the boat's greater stability when in a fore and aft direction? We have laid ahull in moderate weather (20-30 knots) with no problems. The literature (Heavy Weather Sailing) is so full of ahull monohull boats getting knocked down that I would not use that technique in anything from a gale on up.

[Jeannius]

Kettlewell.... Here is a link to Richard Woods own account of the story....

http://www.multihullpages.com/eclipse.html

[Steve Rust]

Talbot is right about lying ahull, it is a safe tactic until the waves start breaking severely. If you have searoom running off can work well. Multihulls have excellent directional stability and control due to the narrow hull form. There is little tendency to broach when running downwind in large swells. You can use this control to avoid the worst breakers. In storm conditions you need to control your speed to keep it a little less than the wave train by reduced sail area or drag device or a combination of both depending on wind speed but still allow the boat to move out when hit by a breaker. With their high bouyancy low drag hull forms that accelarate quickly they will be pushed out ahead of the worst of the breaker lessening the chance of getting pooped. I have read several stories about cats and tris surfing sideways down large swells with centerboards/daggerboards retracted.

I am of the opinion that you should not be sailing at the same speed or faster than the wave train in storm conditions as you could find yourself riding a real monster or sailing off a steep crest and stuffing a couple of bows in the trough.
If you run out of searoom or the crew is tired then you may need to deploy the chute. Michaele has some good insight on using one. Again it's having the dedicated gear, properly sized, and knowing how to deploy it.

Kai, in the conditions that would require using the chute I guess nothing will be easy but a little practice in moderate conditions would let you know what to expect. I have only used mine in practice and have never been in condtions where I would need to use it for real. Retrieval can be a pain in the ass but with luck most of us will never have the experience. There is a well known story of a couple who rounded Cape Horn in a 38 ft Horstman tri and survived a 100 knot storm with a surplus military chute.

[marc]

Really interesting subject. Seems most contributors information has come from reading about it, which is good. The best thing that I've read on the subject is Drag Device Data Base because it's all first person reports from folks who've actually been through these conditions. Reports are from every type of pleasure boat to commercial fishing boats, and the different gear they used, be it drouge, chute, or whatever. All in all, a very objective view, by those that have actually been there.

Marc

[marc]

Forgot to mention in the above post that I actually met someone that had sent a report to DDDB. He was in a 33'-34' cat & had to deploy a chute, which he had pre-rigged. According to him, everything went textbook, and performed as advertised.

Marc

THanks for that Steve. I would be interested to read the story about the Horstman. Is it in print? One thing I have been very impressed with is the aft bouyancy of the trimaran I have been on. In 10' seas, at no time, did it push the stern. The stern would rise up on the waves regardless of the interval. This is one of the reasons I am so fond of double enders. I hate being pooped. It appears that the trimarans are bouyant enough that this would not be an issue in anything but breaking waves.