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View Poll Results: If you won the lottery and the prize was a mono or catamaran which would you choose?
I currently own a monohull and would choose a new monohull 48 27.91%
I currently own a monohull and would choose a new cruising catamaran 38 22.09%
I currently own a catamaran and would choose a new monohull 3 1.74%
I currently own a catamaran and would choose a new catamaran 83 48.26%
Voters: 172. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 27-05-2008, 12:53   #121
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Thanks Joli - I am not suggesting that 400 mile days are possible, nor even that a performance oriented cruising cat will outrun a comparable mono in all conditions (in fact, I said exactly the opposite). I am saying that the notion of being able to have a controlled and comfortable sail at, or approaching 20 knots from time to time, in conditions that I am apt to get with some regularity in the Caribbean, seems pretty appealing to me.

Certainly none of the cats you have mentioned in the ARC would fall heavily on the performance side of the cruising cat spectrum, and that would have impacted on the results. Let me put it this way: I fully appreciate that the average day's passage on my Solaris Sunstream 40 is apt to be no better (and often somewhat worse) than a number of comparably sized monohulls - some of which will not even be 'performance' boats, in any real sense.

That, on the other hand, is not what my cat is for. In her size, she provides a remarkable blend of accomodation and comfort with a reasonable turn of speed. She is solidly constructed (Lloyd's 100 A1 offshore), has redundant systems, is easy to sail, is incredibly comfortable at anchor, has a shoal draft, is beachable and can safely (and comfortably) accomodate a much larger number of day-charter guests than any comparably sized monohull.

On the other hand, if I was prepared to sacrifice some of the space and comfort advantages while retaining the shoal draft, anchoring stability and ease of boat handling, I could move to a performance cat that would give me the opportunity for some daysails and short passages at speeds that I could not achieve in any cruising monohull.

Brad
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Old 27-05-2008, 14:22   #122
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Hello Brad,

Possibly we are saying the same thing but from a different perspective?

As a comparison (per the title of the thread). This months Sail mag has a write up on a FP Mahe for $250K and a Bene 46 for $240k. I would guess the larger Bene would be quicker in most conditions but the Mahe would have more deck space. Docking the Bene would be cheaper but the Mahe could get closer to the beach when anchoring. Kinda goes back to the matrix of wants and needs we all live in.

Fountaine Pajot - showroom

Welcome to Beneteau USA - Beneteau 46

Seems like a decent comparison between production cats and monos and the market will decide popularity.



Just curious, would consider an Outremer 50 sailing at 17-18 knots safe and comfy in the Mona Passage?

"I am saying that the notion of being able to have a controlled and comfortable sail at, or approaching 20 knots from time to time, in conditions that I am apt to get with some regularity in the Caribbean, seems pretty appealing to me."



Anyway, fun to discuss and we all get to buy what we want.

Cheers,

Joli


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Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
Thanks Joli - I am not suggesting that 400 mile days are possible, nor even that a performance oriented cruising cat will outrun a comparable mono in all conditions (in fact, I said exactly the opposite). I am saying that the notion of being able to have a controlled and comfortable sail at, or approaching 20 knots from time to time, in conditions that I am apt to get with some regularity in the Caribbean, seems pretty appealing to me.

Certainly none of the cats you have mentioned in the ARC would fall heavily on the performance side of the cruising cat spectrum, and that would have impacted on the results. Let me put it this way: I fully appreciate that the average day's passage on my Solaris Sunstream 40 is apt to be no better (and often somewhat worse) than a number of comparably sized monohulls - some of which will not even be 'performance' boats, in any real sense.

That, on the other hand, is not what my cat is for. In her size, she provides a remarkable blend of accomodation and comfort with a reasonable turn of speed. She is solidly constructed (Lloyd's 100 A1 offshore), has redundant systems, is easy to sail, is incredibly comfortable at anchor, has a shoal draft, is beachable and can safely (and comfortably) accomodate a much larger number of day-charter guests than any comparably sized monohull.

On the other hand, if I was prepared to sacrifice some of the space and comfort advantages while retaining the shoal draft, anchoring stability and ease of boat handling, I could move to a performance cat that would give me the opportunity for some daysails and short passages at speeds that I could not achieve in any cruising monohull.

Brad
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Old 27-05-2008, 17:49   #123
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Anyway, fun to discuss and we all get to buy what we want.

Cheers,

Joli
Yea baby!

Plus that boat needs retractable foils - there would be some Passage Time!! Can't wait to see someone with money build one!!
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Old 27-05-2008, 17:50   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post

That, on the other hand, is not what my cat is for. In her size, she provides a remarkable blend of accomodation and comfort with a reasonable turn of speed. She is solidly constructed (Lloyd's 100 A1 offshore), has redundant systems, is easy to sail, is incredibly comfortable at anchor, has a shoal draft, is beachable and can safely (and comfortably) accomodate a much larger number of day-charter guests than any comparably sized monohull.



Brad
I can achieve double figures surfing downwind in my 37' mono but I wouldnt trust the autopilot and I have to conentrate hard to keep her tracking as she gets very twitchy whereas upwind she'll virtually sail herself.

I think yr comment about redundant systems is one area that hasnt been given much attention in this thread. 2 rudders & 2 engines must provide a degree of comfort when s... hits the fan. I also get jealous when I arrive late at a popular anchorage for lunch and I'm a hard row from the beach with my nearly 2m draft and a cat heads in and parks close enough to virtually step off onto the beach. Just ain't cricket.
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Old 27-05-2008, 18:09   #125
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Who said monohulls are as fast as cats?

Good write up by Chris White on his sea trial of his personal Atlantic 55
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Old 27-05-2008, 18:54   #126
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This talk of only around 20 knots on a cat is chicken feed stuff. A decent cat will hit 40 knots, no problem at all .

Like this one on which I took this photo during its sea trials -






Was my kind of cat though, with 3,000 HP .
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Old 28-05-2008, 13:26   #127
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Anyway, fun to discuss and we all get to buy what we want.

Cheers,

Joli
Anyone notice that the guy is single handing his cat at 18 knots? It looks like he'll lose 5 pounds from all the running around the cockpit.

I prefer a slower, more sedate pace.
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Old 31-05-2008, 21:25   #128
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Contrast with Rare Bird Visionarry on YouTube at 15knots in complete comfort
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Old 01-06-2008, 11:31   #129
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Or this Atlantic 42 at 20 knots.................

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Old 01-06-2008, 12:24   #130
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I'd Stick with a mono, because I captained a 47' cat for a while and I can tell you from personal experiance that while they are roomy and fast they do flip. Once upside down well... they stay that way.
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Old 01-06-2008, 12:41   #131
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I'd Stick with a mono, because I captained a 47' cat for a while and I can tell you from personal experiance that while they are roomy and fast they do flip. Once upside down well... they stay that way.

So you flipped one huh?

Care to educate us with some details?
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Old 01-06-2008, 13:31   #132
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I too would love to hear and learn from his personal experience in flipping the 47 foot cat that he skippered. And while it is dangerous to move directly from the particular into the general (as captandy has done), his personal experience of such a rare and no doubt highly publicized occurence would nevertheless add to our pool of knowledge.

Brad
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Old 01-06-2008, 15:18   #133
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I'd Stick with a mono, because I captained a 47' cat for a while and I can tell you from personal experiance that while they are roomy and fast they do flip. Once upside down well... they stay that way.
I too would be very interested to hear how you flipped a 47 ft catamaran, ie the weather conditions, wind, sea state, the make and model of cat, the crew experience and so on as I and I am sure many other would be cat owners or even existing cat owners can learn not to make the same mistakes, and in what publications was it reported in? Thanks
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Old 02-06-2008, 10:10   #134
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I dont think it can be disputed that multis can capsize, any more than it can be disputed that monos can sink, that dinghys are small that windsurfers can be hard work etc etc etc. What I am intirgued in is the circumstances of the 47 foot cat inversion. How and why did it happen. I have been sailing for 35 years the better part of that on multis and havent flipped one yet (not counting hobies etc) and am keen to avoid such an action in the future so am very keen to hear about how cats that large (14 metre) are flipped. My rsearch into the physics of all this suggests that it would be nigh on impossible to sail one over unless you are a certifiable lunatic carrying evry scrap of canvas in a cyclone, possible to have wave action cause the inversions but again one would wonder why prudent actions such as para anchor wouldnt have been used in the first instance. But thats theoretical so I could be wrong - keen to hear from Andy (by the way - I notice that a lot of USA sailors call themselves captain, whats the go there?)
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Old 02-06-2008, 16:40   #135
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(by the way - I notice that a lot of USA sailors call themselves captain, whats the go there?)
Captains have bigger........umm...........you know...........Ummmm.........thingys.....like..... you know?
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