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Old 04-11-2005, 19:07   #1
Kai Nui
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Multihull critics

For those who are critical of the benfits of a multi hull. Page 121 of the November Latitude 38 has a great example of the benefits. The Chamberlin 46' "Incinerater" was flipped off Sydney in July. "A month ago, she was spotted 800 miles away, still afloat with her own eco system."
Can't say it looks comfortable, but sure looks survivable.
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Old 06-11-2005, 22:30   #2
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Kai,

I appreciate your point of view - but just having survived 12m waves and winds gusting to Force 11 off the coast of Vietnam in the middle of a typhoon in my full keeled monohull, I have made a personal vow never to go offshore in anything less. If I had been in a catamaran, at best I would be upside down out there still drifting - at worst, I'd be dead.

In short, I didn't find God out there, but my conviction on solid, seaworthy monohulls has been renewed.

Scott
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Old 06-11-2005, 22:43   #3
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Oh I dunno Scott. I would say God found you and was sitting pretty close by the sound of it.
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Old 07-11-2005, 14:09   #4
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Scott, I would be amazed if you were not a fervent supporter of the boat design that kept you safe in such conditions. That doesnt mean its the only design that would have achieved the same, and IIRC you were lying to a drogue which probably has as much right as the boat design to claim the kudos of saving your life.
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Old 07-11-2005, 15:08   #5
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Some Cat info

From the graphs below it is clear that the energy required to roll the cat over is 50% higher than it is for the monohull.






Where a Cat, with the dagger boards up, will slide down a wave. But the monohull, the keel creates sideways resistance and will roll the hull over once the bulwark dips below the surface.

The Future

74 Reasons For.............._/)

The main down fall of Cat's is once it has gone over it stays there. But, there are trials of carring infatable gear that can be attached to the mast that will bring the masthead to the surface. And then by flooding one hull it'll right itself. Or the use of a large power boat, the upper hull can be pulled over the center of balance.
And if one can get the hasthead to rise either fwd or aft vs P/S, it'll right much EZer. ................................_/)
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Old 07-11-2005, 18:30   #6
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Talbot,

Yep. I know that's a no-brainer. BUT, even if not for its resistence to capsize, the full keel kept our drift to a minimum and saved us from a lee shore

I was out in a big cat a few months ago - i'm pretty sure that boat would not have made it - but we'll never know
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Old 07-11-2005, 18:40   #7
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delmarrey - what happens to your graph if the boat maintains a better angle to the wave ?

capt. lar
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Old 07-11-2005, 19:46   #8
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I'm not a Big Cat sailor myself, but from what I've read you need to stay in a forward motion or have a sea anchor out.

You don't want to be slipping back or it could take out your rudder(s) just like a mono.

It's just that Cats travel faster and sooner (shorter reaction time).

Try "The Future" artical........_/)
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Old 07-11-2005, 21:43   #9
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Scott, I do not disagree with you. In the worst conditions, I would feel safer in my 28' mono than in any vessel I have ever sailed, but... It is pretty amazing to see a boat that badly damaged still floating above the surface. I still have not made up my mind on mono vs. multihull for my future cruising plans, but for the specific use of weathing the southern ocean, or riding out an anticyclone, I prefer my monohull. It is a classic carvel planked wood boat, and only 28' on deck, and cutter rigged with a spruce spar. Most of the people on this board would not consider this the optimum choice, but it is for me. That being said, I am still impressed by the cat.
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Old 07-11-2005, 22:05   #10
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hey, and I haven't really changed my opinion on cats either. For cruising grounds like the Gulf of Thailand, they can't be beat.
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Old 07-11-2005, 22:08   #11
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Delmarray, et. al: let me add my endorsement for keel-hung rudders while I am at it. My rudder took an unbelievable amount of stress. After the dismasting at one point we though Eroica would do a 360. We broached down a wave while lying ahull and in my mind I was 100% certain that had to be the end for our steering.

Miraculously, the rudder is just fine. Had it been a spade it would most certainly be washing up ahore right now somewhere in central Vietnam.
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Old 07-11-2005, 23:00   #12
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Hang about guy's, the waves that tend to roll any boat, are not a pure sine shape like the one pictured. Scott will atest to this, as thiose things get bigger, they get steeper. Boats are often rolled or pitchpoled because the fall off and down the face of the wave. Controlling speed is so you don't launch yourself out of those big peaking crests and end up in free air. That's how ruff and steep these things are. I know of several cats and tri's that were rolled over because they came off the face wrongly. Wind is the other enemy. It can get up under the hull and lift. That spectacular graph Delmarrey has provided doens't show that.
Now don't get me wrong, I am not arguing which hull is better, that would be like the FC versus Steel versus GRP argument. Just pointing out a couple of aspects the graph doens't show.
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Old 07-11-2005, 23:00   #13
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Scott, been of the web for a couple days, so this is the first I heard of your adventure. Glad to have you back.
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Old 08-11-2005, 03:56   #14
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Scott
you are right that a cat without a drogue is going to take off in strong winds. Thus the drogue design needs to take the recipient vessel into account. Personally I would rather have a series drogue cause you then dont need to worry about how long wavelength is compared to your drogue.

A quick look at http://www.seriesdrogue.com/ will show that they use a different number of droguelets for different craft and different weights.

I would not consider going any distance off-shore without one of these.
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Old 08-11-2005, 18:50   #15
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Alan,

You are absolutely correct. I don't even know what to call them, but we saw waves that combined at least three different elements - breaking mainliners, big sinocidal (sp?) combined with cross swells at one or two different angles. These rise sharply, pyramid and then crash straight down. Totally unpredicatable. Luckily none of those broke right on us.
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