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Old 14-02-2008, 05:43   #61
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Along with that wet suit don't forget to add a snorkel mask. That salr spray can be brutal, and maybe if it is bad enough the snorkel too...LOLOLOLOLOL
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Old 14-02-2008, 06:03   #62
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Imagine may be kidding (or not), but Iím not kidding; when I recommend that you keep a pair of swim goggles handy to the helm.
Wind-driven rain can be both blinding & painfull !!!
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Old 14-02-2008, 06:27   #63
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Imagine may be kidding (or not), but Iím not kidding; when I recommend that you keep a pair of swim goggles handy to the helm.
Wind-driven rain can be both blinding & painfull !!!
Yes, it can be extremely painful and *cold*... brr.

Luckily, I have almost an entire cockpit enclosure on this new boat. Just need to add a few bits to form the complete enclosure. Bimini and dodger are already there. If I need a snorkel with that one... I'm in *big* trouble and might need the fins as well.
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Old 14-02-2008, 06:38   #64
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Sorry Hud for the admittedly confusing response, I have no real experience in Hobie's or other small cats designed to fly a hull. I was (and am) prepared to accept what you say about your experience when flying a hull upwind and getting hit with a sudden gust: bear off. Despite my experience in cruising cats (and apparently the experience of the next contributor) that you should bear-up, it struck me that your experience makes sense in the context of weight transfer (and centrifugal force) when a boat is already at or near its point of no return. I likened it to the 'sway' of a car in a turn and posited that, since the sail is already spilling wind due to the extreme angle of heel, a turn off the wind might be the most effective action.

So yes, I am prepared to agree with you. Although in the case of a cruising cat not flying a hull, heading up is prefereable because it will pull the force vector from the sail forward, rather than to the side. Clear as mud?

Further, I agree with the later posting that you have to depower the main - it is not, however, merely an alternative to heading up. In my experience, it is faster to head up and then move the traveller to leeward (and in the case of a masthead rig like mine, reef the headsail). In addition, roller-reefing the headsail is much easier with a slight luff.

Brad

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Old 14-02-2008, 07:37   #65
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I was making fun about the snorkel, but a mask can be essential. I was not smart enough to think about it rounding Point Conception, and my eyesight suffered drastically while on the bow changing headsails.

When I first bought my cat. I kept the sheets in the selftailing winches. I only kept about a half an inch for fear of raising a hull. I
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Old 14-02-2008, 07:42   #66
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OOPS

I have to giggle at my fears. It is going to take a world of force to get the boat's hull out of the water. I am a prudent sailor when it comes to weather, and reefing. So far I have only sailed, on the cat, in 35knt winds close reaching, and there were no problems. Took sometime to get use to the bombs under the house though. I can only imagine what force, and stupidity it would take to turtle the boat.
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Old 14-02-2008, 08:37   #67
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I When I first bought my cat. I kept the sheets in the selftailing winches. I only kept about a half an inch for fear of raising a hull.
Heck, up to 20 KTS gusting to 30 I cleat my sheets. It's no big deal. Gusting higher than that, you'll find me at the dock with a single malt scotch in my hand.
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Old 14-02-2008, 12:50   #68
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That was then......LOLOLOL
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Old 15-02-2008, 07:30   #69
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[quote=imagine2frolic;134351]I was making fun about the snorkel, but a mask can be essential.

G'day.

In my experience (2 capsizes, slow learner) mask and snorkel are essentials if the boat does capsize. They make access to and from the cockpit and deck hatches considerably safer, and if sails have to be dropped before righting can happen (more a race boat issue than a cruiser), they make this much easier.

regards,

Rob
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Old 15-02-2008, 08:00   #70
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In my experience (2 capsizes, slow learner) mask and snorkel are essentials if the boat does capsize. They make access to and from the cockpit and deck hatches considerably safer, and if sails have to be dropped before righting can happen (more a race boat issue than a cruiser), they make this much easier.
I don't believe I've ever seen a post from someone who has capsized a cat, (other than hobie cat type boats) so forgive me if I ask some questions.

What size boat are we talking about? weight? cruiser? Brand/model?

Fixed keel or boards?

Were the capsizes a result of overpressing? Or storm seas?

You mention righting the boat. Did you hire a barge/crane to assist with the righting of the vessel?

What have you learned that would prevent the incident(s)?

Thanks
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Old 15-02-2008, 12:38   #71
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ROB,

Please do answer Rickm's questions. I was kidding about the snorkel while the shiny side was up. Now that you mention it. I can see even the snorkel could come in handy.
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Old 15-02-2008, 12:55   #72
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I'm with Rick - capsizes of cruising cats are extremely rare and I have concerns that some may see this as an indictiment of their safety. If this was a joke (as I suspect) please say so. If not, we'd love to hear about your experiences - they are, afterall, about as statistically likely as someone being struck twice by lightening.

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Old 15-02-2008, 14:42   #73
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The poster, Rob Denney, is the designer of the Harry Proa - quite an interesting and innovative idea. He has also been an avid multihull racer (Formula 40's) and designer of advanced and experimental boats. While I have no doubt he has experienced capsizes, they probably were not in the typical heavy cruiser multihull that is implied in this thread.

I don't mean to put words in his mouth, but I don't know how often he visits this site.

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Old 15-02-2008, 18:38   #74
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Originally Posted by rickm505 View Post
I don't believe I've ever seen a post from someone who has capsized a cat, (other than hobie cat type boats) so forgive me if I ask some questions.

What size boat are we talking about? weight? cruiser? Brand/model?

Fixed keel or boards?

Were the capsizes a result of overpressing? Or storm seas?

You mention righting the boat. Did you hire a barge/crane to assist with the righting of the vessel?

What have you learned that would prevent the incident(s)?

Thanks
G'day,

Both were racing cats. It is very difficult to capsize a cruising cat, even if one tries hard. I do not know of any cruising cats which capsized while cruising in the last 20 years or so. Anyone who does, please post details.

My first capsize was in the 1984 2 handed Round Britain race. 2 young guys with balls bigger than their brains in a 35', radical for it's time, cat. Built on the very cheap, sort of completed just before the race started. Blindingly quick, we finished 9th (against 60 footers) in the first leg despite losing a rigging screw on one of the shrouds and having to use a halyard to hold the mast up. Second leg we overtook a couple of boats, then came hard on the wind up the Atlantic coast of Ireland. Force 6, 4 o'clock in the morning. Crew was too scared to go below, was snoozing on deck. I was steering. Bit tired, we flew a hull a couple of times, then I stopped concentrating and over we went. I slid down the shroud into the water, crew swam out from underneath. We swam round the back and onto the tramp. The cheap deck hatches opened and my wet suit, the flares and everything else in the hull disappeared before we had a chance to do anything about it. Turned on the hired EPIRB, and pulled the string on the hired liferaft. Nothing happened so we pumped it by hand, then sat in it for 11 hours until the Irish navy picked us up and after a lot of hard work sank the boat. Boat had no escape hatch.

2nd was a Formula 40 with big rig sailing close to shore in 20 knots in daylight. Tight reaching, on the limit. I was driving and discussed with the owner whether we should luff or bear away if we looked like capsizing. Didn't really make any diofference. A gust hit, we accelerated, buried the lee bow, the rudders cam eout of the water and over we went, with me pounding ineffectively on the hydraulic dump button for the mainsheet. Local coastguard came out tied a bridle to the bows and towed it over bows over sterns. We were racing again a couple of days later.

Both were daggerboards. Both were being raced hard in strongish winds. Both were sailed over. The first was tiredness, the second too much sail on a tight reach with nowhere to go in a gust.

What have I learned? Escape hatches, warm gear, upside down accommodation, all the usual stuff, most of it is in Gavin Leseurs book. Unstayed rigs, , sheltered driving position and some other unusual stuff which has gone into harryproas.

Any other questions, please ask.

regards,

rob
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Old 16-02-2008, 01:59   #75
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From Chris White, The Cruising Multihull, he states that he asked many designers, builders, and multihull sailors worldwide for information about multihull fatalities. His survey was for boats 25 feet or longer from 1960 to August 1989, Atlantic Ocean and peripheral seas. Over that time period there were 28 deaths in 19 accidents. 13 of the deaths in 10 of the accidents were racing related. Of the racing related deaths 7 of them were in 3 capsizes. On the cruising side there were 4 deaths in 4 capsizes. He does not give total number of capsizes. He says that there were many more racing capsizes than cruising, probably about 10 times as many. No deaths occurred in cruising multihulls over 37 feet.


44 footer capsized off of Oregon coast just over a year ago. Search Oregon and catamaran capsize.

John
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