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jbinbi · 10-02-2016, 06:48

Been following this thread with great interest as I have a similiar thread on how to connect to a mooring.

My cat has a bridle which is attached via 2 eyelets on each bow, then the bridle ends in a S hook which I can use with my anchor chain.

My mooring is a ball, attached is the pennant, which is 10' of 5/8 or 3/4" line ending in a spliced loop.

I would like a simple way to use this to connect to my mooring, obviously I can't use a S hook, but would like to consider other 'quick' attachment/releases to the pennant loops that are extremely reliable.

Others have used a snap shackle, I am a little concerned about putting all the weight of the boat on a single shackle that can easily open?

I was thinking about a carabiner, saw the wichard shackle would provides a more secure enclosure, but still concerned about leaving the full weight (15k lbs) of the boat on a single shackle during a gale. Or is this reasonable? I also thought of using this method with a line that goes from port bow cleat, through mooring pennant loop and to stb bow cleat as a backup to the shackle.

Would appreciate your comments. Thanks.

SailFastTri · 10-02-2016, 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbinbi

Been following this thread with great interest as I have a similiar thread on how to connect to a mooring.

My cat has a bridle which is attached via 2 eyelets on each bow, then the bridle ends in a S hook which I can use with my anchor chain.

My mooring is a ball, attached is the pennant, which is 10' of 5/8 or 3/4" line ending in a spliced loop.

I would like a simple way to use this to connect to my mooring, obviously I can't use a S hook, but would like to consider other 'quick' attachment/releases to the pennant loops that are extremely reliable.

Others have used a snap shackle, I am a little concerned about putting all the weight of the boat on a single shackle that can easily open?

I was thinking about a carabiner, saw the wichard shackle would provides a more secure enclosure, but still concerned about leaving the full weight (15k lbs) of the boat on a single shackle during a gale. Or is this reasonable? I also thought of using this method with a line that goes from port bow cleat, through mooring pennant loop and to stb bow cleat as a backup to the shackle.

Would appreciate your comments. Thanks.

I think your mooring bridle should be a little longer/heavier. 10' of 5/8 or 3/4" line is not long enough for a 15k pound cat (should be at least 15-20 feet depending on beam and attachment point. 5/8" is probably adequate if no chafe and if also long enough to provide shock absorption, but 3/4" to 1" is better.

I also recommend you float your bridle legs when on a mooring. I use split closed-cell pipe insulation, attached every 2 feet with tie wraps. That keeps the bridle legs from sinking, and wrapping beneath the mooring float if the boat drifts over it in calms. Also, if you have a sprit, a shock cord attached from the end of the sprit to the mooring float will keep the boat from drifting over it. (Some attachments need to be performed from the dinghy).

As for the shackle, 2 of the largest Wichard shackles should do (one each leg). That way they share the load, and I agree one is too risky. For big storms IMHO you should use thimbles and 5/8" or 3/4" galvanized shackles 4T SWL and have 1" backup mooring line(s) a bit slack in case one leg fails.

jbinbi · 10-02-2016, 16:41

sailfast, sorry, i wasn't clear. The 10' is not MY bridle but rather the mooring pennant.

On my mooring, there are 2 pennants coming from the ball and I think these are 3/4 and I can make them as long as I like. However, on a general mooring, usually there is only a single pennant.

My bridle is probably 30-35', just a guess, only had the boat for about 2 weeks before the winter, but boat is 21' beam, and bridle is from Lagoon, assume they know a good length.

So what I want to do is have a Wichard shackle at the end of the bridle from the boat to connect to the mooring pennant loop. Do you believe a single shackle is ok to connect to the mooring pennant? Would you worry about this for say while you were on the boat? How about if you were not on board? For this situation, my solution would be in addition to the shackle to run a line from port bow cleat, through pennant loop to stb bow cleat. This way if the shackle gave way, there would be another line connecting through the pennant.

**StuM** · 10-02-2016, 17:29

You could use a soft shackle (or two if you are worried

)

SailFastTri · 10-02-2016, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbinbi

sailfast, sorry, i wasn't clear. The 10' is not MY bridle but rather the mooring pennant.

On my mooring, there are 2 pennants coming from the ball and I think these are 3/4 and I can make them as long as I like. However, on a general mooring, usually there is only a single pennant.

My bridle is probably 30-35', just a guess, only had the boat for about 2 weeks before the winter, but boat is 21' beam, and bridle is from Lagoon, assume they know a good length.

So what I want to do is have a Wichard shackle at the end of the bridle from the boat to connect to the mooring pennant loop. Do you believe a single shackle is ok to connect to the mooring pennant? Would you worry about this for say while you were on the boat? How about if you were not on board? For this situation, my solution would be in addition to the shackle to run a line from port bow cleat, through pennant loop to stb bow cleat. This way if the shackle gave way, there would be another line connecting through the pennant.

I wouldn't leave the boat for long (or for a storm) where there's only one pennant. I also would never recommend attaching the bridle to the looped end of a mooring pennant, unless you're just stopping for lunch. If it's your mooring, make up a set of pennants suitable to your boat and use that as your "home" bridle that stays at the mooring when your boat leaves. (If leaving for a few weeks you may wish to remove it so it doesn't accumulate too much growth). It should have flotation as I noted in my post above, to avoid wrapping the mooring chain.

Get a catamaran mooring plate (like this one http://www.taylormadeproducts.com/su...guidelines.pdf) so you can have a separate heavy duty galvanized shackle (pin wired secure) with an even larger one connecting the plate to the top of the mooring chain.

SailFastTri · 10-02-2016, 19:58

I read your post again, Jbinbi, and perhaps you referring to using the pennant on a transient (short term rental) mooring? In that case, I'd use the pennant loop IF there was no suitable metal attachment point, but secure my bridle to it in such a way that there would be no chafe. One thing you want to avoid is having one line "saw" through another as the boat moves around. Think "sheet bend".

Tri · 10-02-2016, 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

Get a catamaran mooring plate (like this one http://www.taylormadeproducts.com/su...guidelines.pdf) so you can have a separate heavy duty galvanized shackle (pin wired secure) with an even larger one connecting the plate to the top of the mooring chain.

Thanks sailfastri, that is a very helpful reference.

jbinbi · 11-02-2016, 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

I read your post again, Jbinbi, and perhaps you referring to using the pennant on a transient (short term rental) mooring? In that case, I'd use the pennant loop IF there was no suitable metal attachment point, but secure my bridle to it in such a way that there would be no chafe. One thing you want to avoid is having one line "saw" through another as the boat moves around. Think "sheet bend".

a. thanks for the link/pdf on the mooring attachment. great info.
b. yes, on a transient mooring that is short term, where i don't dictate what it made of, my question is, 'what to have at the end of my bridle that quickly can connect to the mooring pennant loop'. You have indicated a very large wichard shackle would work, I was worried about something sawing through as you indicated.

again, your information has been very helpful, so thanks.

SailFastTri · 11-02-2016, 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbinbi

a. thanks for the link/pdf on the mooring attachment. great info.
b. yes, on a transient mooring that is short term, where i don't dictate what it made of, my question is, 'what to have at the end of my bridle that quickly can connect to the mooring pennant loop'. You have indicated a very large wichard shackle would work, I was worried about something sawing through as you indicated.

again, your information has been very helpful, so thanks.

This picture is worth many words. It shows the New England Ropes Cyclone Mooring Pendant, but you could make up something similar on your own using a short line with 2 spliced eyes, or one continuous loop. Notice the way it's attached in the bottom image. That's not something you can do quickly while you grab the mooring, especially if the wind/current requires you to work fast. You need to run a line through the mooring pendent loop or get it on a cleat while you make up a more suitable connection.

One other thing to consider, is that attaching your bridle to the end of an existing pendent may add too much swing room, considering the spacing of the mooring field. That's where it's better to use two connections close to the mooring ball (using Prussic knots as I wrote about earlier in this thread) from your bridle to the mooring's permanent pendent. Then use your bridle as the primary and loop a strong dock line through the pendent loop, and attached it to a bow eye as backup (leaving a little slack). The dockline should have both ends attached to the same cleat (to avoid "sawing" as the boat swings).

LeeV · 11-02-2016, 18:40

I took this photo of Linda Wright's F-27 bridle system (anchor/mooring) when we attended the Multihull Clinic hosted by Windcraft and taught by Randy Smyth, Linda and host, Don Wigston. She uses a snap shackle with the line running through the block at the tip of the ama and back to a winch, where it can be adjusted or secured.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...1&d=1455245322

Sos · 12-02-2016, 01:43

[QUOTE=LeeV;2043339]I took this photo of Linda Wright's F-27 bridle system (anchor/mooring) when we attended the Multihull Clinic hosted by Windcraft and taught by Randy Smyth, Linda and host, Don Wigston. She uses a snap shackle with the line running through the block at the tip of the ama and back to a winch, where it can be adjusted or secured./QUOTE]

I have always thought this would be a good idea. It also means you can let out more anchor rode if needed which is not so easy with a fixed bridle.
Never tried it so would like to know if it works?

LeeV · 12-02-2016, 04:48

[QUOTE=Sos;2043494]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeV

I took this photo of Linda Wright's F-27 bridle system (anchor/mooring) when we attended the Multihull Clinic hosted by Windcraft and taught by Randy Smyth, Linda and host, Don Wigston. She uses a snap shackle with the line running through the block at the tip of the ama and back to a winch, where it can be adjusted or secured./QUOTE]

I have always thought this would be a good idea. It also means you can let out more anchor rode if needed which is not so easy with a fixed bridle.
Never tried it so would like to know if it works?

I think you need to try different methods, and see what works for you. All 3 of the folks I mentioned are highly regarded in the multi world (I just heard Randy is currently coaching the US Olympic multihull hopefuls on Nacra 17's), yet they use different bridle setups. The method of bridling between the main hull and one ama is quite popular as it seems to reduce sailing at anchor. Try them all!

Tri · 03-04-2016, 03:59

We have now tried to attach the bridle to the bow tip of the amas versus to the attachment on the crossbeams. No more sailing around at anchor. It really makes a big difference.

The Prussic knot did not work for us. It kept slipping. We had about 20 knots wind at the time. We just went back to the bowline.

I will look into the Prussic or similar knots again though because it is tempting that you can vary lenght of line by simply moving the knot versus a fixed bowline.

valhalla360 · 03-04-2016, 04:06

Assuming you are using 3 strand, I'm surprised the prussic didn't hold. We've never had it slip. Particularly in a stronger winds, it tightens up and holds better.