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Old 05-02-2016, 21:25   #31
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Re: Multihull bridle attachment

Obviously I have not been clear because multiple responders seem to be misunderstanding what I thought I wrote. So I'll accept the blame and try again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailFastTri View Post
I've been using a mooring bridle since 2001 on my trimarans, attached the "wrong" way as in the image you linked. I attach my bridle to reinforced forward-facing U-bolts at the outer ends of the fore crossbeams.

It seems to be doing well after 15 years. If the image hadn't said it's wrong I wouldn't have known.

The boat's on the hard for the winter but I may try an attachment to the outer bows at some point, as an experiment.

snip
Any reference to using spinnaker control lines as an outhaul for the bridle was just as an experiment, to see if it would make any difference in "hunting" if the bridle is pulled out (by a snatch block on a control line) to the outer bows instead of direct to the crossbeams. (Even while pulled outward during such an experiment, my attachment load point for the bridle would still be the U-bolts on the outer ends of the fore crossbeams).

I never wrote anything about using a bridle to control the spinnaker or anything like that. What I wrote was that I could use the spinnaker control lines running through a block at the bows to control the bridal for the experiment.

Does that clarify?
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Old 06-02-2016, 05:33   #32
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Re: Multihull bridle attachment

Quote:
Originally Posted by senormechanico View Post

The middle of the bridle has a short length of line attached which is secured to the anchor rode (35' of chain then rode) with a rolling hitch or Gripping Hitch.
The boat doesn't sail at anchor until we see around 15 knots or so, and even then it is fairly minimal.


Thanks and great to hear that the boat is not sailing at anchor. I will try to switch attachment point the next time on board.

I personally just tie the bridle legs to the attachment points on the beam or now as a try to the front of the ama with a bowline or Yosemite bowline in stronger winds. At the end of each bridle leg there is a big snap shackle that I hock into a bowline I tie into the anchor rode at the desired length.

The only remaining fear is the strength of the u-bolts at the end of the ama bow
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Old 06-02-2016, 08:22   #33
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Re: Multihull bridle attachment

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Originally Posted by FSMike View Post
snip
I also don't see what a snap hook and a U-bolt have to do with chafe protection.
You don't have any chafe guard material on your bridle? Or does your bridle not touch anything?
I use a heavy Wichard snap shackle to attach the bridle legs to the U-bolt on the outer end of each fore crossbeam. Splices are stronger and neater than knots. The bridle legs touch the vinyl rubrail covering the deck seam but there's little movement or pressure, and chafe hasn't been an issue. (I use chafe material there anyway but it's not needed.) Metal to metal means I don't worry about chafe. The center hull is cleated and a small amount of slack is left to the anchor rode or 3rd mooring line, so that center hull attachment is a backup in case a leg fails. In 15 years it hasn't been needed.
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Old 06-02-2016, 08:25   #34
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Re: Multihull bridle attachment

Hi Sailfasttri, how do you attach the bridle to the anchor rod?
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Old 06-02-2016, 09:14   #35
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Re: Multihull bridle attachment

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Originally Posted by SailFastTri View Post
------Does that clarify?
Yes, thanks.
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Old 06-02-2016, 11:24   #36
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Re: Multihull bridle attachment

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailFastTri View Post
I use a heavy Wichard snap shackle to attach the bridle legs to the U-bolt on the outer end of each fore crossbeam. Splices are stronger and neater than knots. The bridle legs touch the vinyl rubrail covering the deck seam but there's little movement or pressure, and chafe hasn't been an issue. (I use chafe material there anyway but it's not needed.) Metal to metal means I don't worry about chafe. The center hull is cleated and a small amount of slack is left to the anchor rode or 3rd mooring line, so that center hull attachment is a backup in case a leg fails. In 15 years it hasn't been needed.

Previously to tying my bridle, I used the same hooks as in your pic.
I removed it whenever sailing, but decided to just tie it and leave it in place.

No chafe evident in several years of summer sailing, but the rest of the time it's at my dock instead of a mooring.
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Old 06-02-2016, 16:22   #37
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Re: Multihull bridle attachment

If you're leaving it in place full time, why not splice it?
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Old 06-02-2016, 16:55   #38
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Re: Multihull bridle attachment

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Hi Sailfasttri, how do you attach the bridle to the anchor rod?
I have a "travelling bridle" that's a duplicate of my home mooring bridle. The far end has a thimble. I carry 5/8" US-made galvanized shackles if I want to connect to a "guest" mooring eye long-term, if ever appropriate. But generally the "travelling bridle" is used to connect to my rode or a guest mooring for a night or two using my Dyneema loops.

The attached image shows my setup. Obviously this isn't under load (I took the picture tonight for illustration). Imagine the blue line is my anchor rode and the white line is my "travelling bridle". The Dyneema loops (one for each bridle leg) are wrapped through themselves in a Prussic knot, which grips the line or chain very hard and has never slipped.

Alternatively I use the Dyneema loops on a guest mooring eye. Easy to connect/disconnect, and strong. I have 1/4" Dyneema loops for daily use and 3/8" for storm use.
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Old 06-02-2016, 20:58   #39
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Re: Multihull bridle attachment

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Originally Posted by SailFastTri View Post
snip
Alternatively I use the Dyneema loops on a guest mooring eye. Easy to connect/disconnect, and strong. I have 1/4" Dyneema loops for daily use and 3/8" for storm use.
Just to clarify the above, if I tie to a guest mooring the "eye" I referred to above is the top of the float, not the eye at the end of the pennant.

I either loop the Dyneema around the steel eye at the top of the float, or rig it to the pennant (attached close to the mooring ball) with a Prussic as shown above. Then I connect my center hull to the pennant (extending it with one of my extra lines of needed) to the center bow cleat, leaving a bit of slack so the bridle legs take the load.
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Old 06-02-2016, 21:25   #40
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Re: Multihull bridle attachment

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If you're leaving it in place full time, why not splice it?
It's on the list, after the bathroom remodel, the master bath remodel, the new carpet, the...the... the...
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Old 07-02-2016, 04:03   #41
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Re: Multihull bridle attachment

Thanks Sailfastri,

interesting way to connect to the rod. Have not thought of that yet. Seems Senormechanico is doing it the same way. I basically do it in the way described in the video in my post #15 with the change that I have replaced the permanent (delta shaped) shackle with a clip shackle in the meantime (by the way the same that you use). The bridle is a lot easier to handle this way and this shackle has a very high working load.

Does tying the bridle to the rod with a prussic not cause chafe to the rod? Why do you do do a dyneema loop for each bridle leg and not hook it into one loop with the two shackles?

Arn't you afraid that the prussic will slip when not under load? How many turns to the prussic do you do in storm conditions? Any slip?

Thanks


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Old 07-02-2016, 04:51   #42
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Re: Multihull bridle attachment

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Thanks Sailfastri,

interesting way to connect to the rod. Have not thought of that yet. Seems Senormechanico is doing it the same way. I basically do it in the way described in the video in my post #15 with the change that I have replaced the permanent (delta shaped) shackle with a clip shackle in the meantime (by the way the same that you use). The bridle is a lot easier to handle this way and this shackle has a very high working load.

Does tying the bridle to the rod with a prussic not cause chafe to the rod? Why do you do do a dyneema loop for each bridle leg and not hook it into one loop with the two shackles?

Arn't you afraid that the prussic will slip when not under load? How many turns to the prussic do you do in storm conditions? Any slip?

Thanks


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1) no chafe, because there's no movement/slippage
2) redundancy, twice the grip and twice the strength
3) the Prussic has never slipped, not even an inch. Once tensioned, it doesn't loosen until I detach the rode and remove it. Tested up to approx 70 kt gusts in t-storms and gale force winds.
4) 3 turns
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Old 07-02-2016, 10:23   #43
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Re: Multihull bridle attachment

Thanks Sailfasttri, I will certainly try that. It sounds easier and more flexible with regard to length than the bowline I currently tie into the anchor rod. Do you use a knot or splice to make the loop?
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Old 07-02-2016, 10:31   #44
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Re: Multihull bridle attachment

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Thanks Sailfasttri, I will certainly try that. It sounds easier and more flexible with regard to length than the bowline I currently tie into the anchor rod. Do you use a knot or splice to make the loop?
Do a web search on Prussic knot. It's a simple and reliable gripping knot that's done using a loop (or in other applications, a doubled line run through it's own loop). You can use a piece of Dyneema that's one continuous loop, or one that has a loop spliced in each end, as I showed in my post above.

Either way, you make 2 or three wraps with the loop (which means you'll have 4 or 6 turns in contact with the rode) and a loop running out to which you attach your bridle.
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Old 07-02-2016, 12:37   #45
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Re: Multihull bridle attachment

Great thanks. I will try that. All very helpful advice.
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