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Old 20-03-2011, 07:40   #61
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pirate Re: Multi v Mono in Carribean

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Originally Posted by osirissail View Post
After four pages of pro's and con's about both cats and monos there is still the OP question of which would be best for cruising the Caribbean. And as some others and myself have mentioned cruising the islands involves more than 90% of your time at anchor/moored and less than 10% actually traveling between islands.
- - Distances in the passages between islands varies but can normally almost always be done in a less than a day sail. The rest of the inter-island sail is usually in the shelter (lee) of an island. And with sometimes multiple stops along the lee shores of an island.
- - This is where cats really come into their own. They are easy to maneuver (depending upon the skipper) and can anchor up close and personal to the beaches better than most monos. But where they really shine and are the envy of most all monos is their ability to remain quite stable in the rolly anchorges that are the rule in the Caribbean. In large anchorages you will see the masts of monos swinging perpetually back and forth while the masts of cats are hardly moving at all. That wide "footprint" really makes a significant comfort difference. And since 90% of your time is spent anchored there is a considerable enjoyment factor in cats versus monos.
- - Personally as a monohull owner/cruiser the constant rolling drives me from one anchorage to another looking for some stable water. So some nice places are bypassed. And as I go by I notice cats in there anchored and having a good time.
And there you have it.... sit on the sundeck as you 'Broadcast' with a Mai Tai in your sweaty little mitt....
or huddle green faced over the chart table with a pack of Ginger Snaps to stop you puking...
Horses for courses Pablo... the mono's second best...
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Old 20-03-2011, 08:13   #62
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Re: Multi v Mono in Carribean

Osirissail, I completely agree with you about the anchoring. It's the value that is difficult. I see you have a Gulfstar. Here is one for sale for $125k. It's one hell of a nice boat and 50'. You can't get a 36' cat for that price that is anywhere near the condition.

1980 Gulfstar Sloop Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I wouldn't want to talk Pablo out of a cat is that's what he wants, but they demand a huge premium on purchase price.
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Old 20-03-2011, 14:18   #63
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Re: Multi v Mono in Carribean

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
A truism is a self-evident and/or obvious truth.
What is it, about truth, that you hate? Or, is it merely certain truths that bother you?
Ah - semantics - refuge of those who wish to avoid the issue.

In my part of the world - truism is a derogatory term synonymous with cliche and a statement proffered by people on the basis of is initial self evident truth - e.g. cats dont go to windward but a statement that bears no critical examination. Your suggestion that I hate something about the truth is quite frankly a poor effort on your part.

Lets make this clear - the statement that cats dont go to windward is JUST PLAIN WRONG
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Old 20-03-2011, 14:21   #64
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Re: Multi v Mono in Carribean

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Osirissail, I completely agree with you about the anchoring. It's the value that is difficult. I see you have a Gulfstar. Here is one for sale for $125k. It's one hell of a nice boat and 50'. You can't get a 36' cat for that price that is anywhere near the condition.

1980 Gulfstar Sloop Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I wouldn't want to talk Pablo out of a cat is that's what he wants, but they demand a huge premium on purchase price.
Yes that is the case - but equally if you look for 31 year old cats the price will drop as well.
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Old 20-03-2011, 14:22   #65
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pirate Re: Multi v Mono in Carribean

ROTFLMBO..... methinks Craigsmith has competition..
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Old 20-03-2011, 14:29   #66
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Re: Multi v Mono in Carribean

Think ive got it now, the CAT would be better for access and anchorage in the carribean (which is where we intend to spend alot of time) but for our budget of around $135,000 we would get a Much newer Mono in better condition!
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Old 20-03-2011, 14:42   #67
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Re: Multi v Mono in Carribean

Yes I think you have summed it up quite well, personally I would stretch your budget.
That's what I did and so far I am very pleased that I did. Don't expect to knock those cats posted on this thread down in price much if any. If they are any good, they are bargains and have probably already sold.
The GFC give away priced boats are all gone now except maybe in the power and mono hull markets.
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Old 20-03-2011, 14:50   #68
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Re: Multi v Mono in Carribean

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Osirissail, . . . I wouldn't want to talk Pablo out of a cat is that's what he wants, but they demand a huge premium on purchase price.

Quite true for the very reason that most everybody wants a Cat for the Caribbean so the prices are driven higher by supply and demand. So it is a matter of luck and budget whether you can find and afford a Cat. But I sincerely believe it is worth the while to really hunt around for one. You might have to go smaller in LOA but the beam makes up for a lot of the lost length.
- - One of the best places is finding a Caribbean cruiser on a Cat owner whose wife told him to stuff it - either go back to living on land or become a single-hander. Come to think of it I have seen a lot of Cat single-handers around.
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Old 20-03-2011, 14:54   #69
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Re: Multi v Mono in Carribean

I'm sure we got a great deal on our cat but it was worth the hunt and our good luck finding what we wanted. I think the east coast is running out of good deals by now since the echomy is flatting out, unless fuel prices go too high for power boats this year and at $4.00 + a gal it will slow those big power boat sales a little.
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Old 20-03-2011, 15:23   #70
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Apples and oranges.

Pablo, you need to spend some time on both. Keep in mind that the equivalent length cat has much more usable space than a mono. They don't heel, roll at anchorage, or roll going downwind. You are not spending your time down below in a hole in the water looking up to see the sights. It hasn't been mentioned but because all the monos heel the stoves are on gimbals so that they will be level. If there is a sudden change in that heeling for various reasons then you risk having that pot of scalding hot whatever all over yourself or being tossed out of bed. Both have happened countless times to monohullers. There have been studies on heeling and it was determined that it just plain wears you out. Try walking across a 20 degree hill for an hour. If there is high wind that mono will be heeling a lot and you should put on a harness for safety if venturing out to mess with the lines or whatever. Cats, not so much. Seasicknes is also more prevalent on a mono. And do not discount the benefits of the bimini that most cats have. You are out of the weather and in the shade and trust me you want shade even while sailing. The nav station on a cat is always in the salon but in the mono it's down below. Many cats have engine controls at the nav station or under the bimini. Visualize motoring and it's pouring buckets. Your sails are down and you can motor from inside. On a mono you would have to be outside in the rain just so you can see. Yes, monos are cheaper per foot of length but when you add the greater living space of a cat the equation starts to even out. In your price range I would recommend a Gemini. It's not really a blue water cruiser but you can get a really nice one in your budget and you will be really happy with it and they are perfect for the islands. They are great boats. Otherwise get a mono. Just make sure to get some time in one in a decent wind to see if it's for you. They are just as seaworthy, pretty on the water and it's a sailboat and you might like it. But, I'm a cat fan. There I said it. So shoot me. BOB
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Old 20-03-2011, 16:12   #71
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Re: Multi v Mono in Carribean

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the statement that cats dont go to windward is JUST PLAIN WRONG
Truism there. Just saying...
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Old 20-03-2011, 16:38   #72
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Re: Multi v Mono in Carribean

On our Gemini 105Mc we use the screecher sail for sailing up wind in 12 kts also and with the use of the centerboards it will point into the breeze real good and be much faster than most monohull crusing boats in the long run crusing. As far as sea sickness the cat's don't wabble extra like most all monohulls do especially at anchor or moored where you want to be relaxing. I have artheris pain in my neck and the best decision I've made is selling my monohull because of the side to side wobble was really hurting. We can sail with a bottle of water or beer on the salon table and it won't move around or spill even if we get a bridge deck wave bump where as on a monohull it would be spilled. My wife works on her computer setting at the salon table while I'm sailing at 10+ kts without worring about her laptop being dumped in the floor lke on our monohull did
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Old 20-03-2011, 16:45   #73
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Re: Apples and oranges.

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Pablo, you need to spend some time on both. Keep in mind that the equivalent length cat has much more usable space than a mono. They don't heel, roll at anchorage, or roll going downwind. You are not spending your time down below in a hole in the water looking up to see the sights. It hasn't been mentioned but because all the monos heel the stoves are on gimbals so that they will be level. If there is a sudden change in that heeling for various reasons then you risk having that pot of scalding hot whatever all over yourself or being tossed out of bed. Both have happened countless times to monohullers. There have been studies on heeling and it was determined that it just plain wears you out. Try walking across a 20 degree hill for an hour. If there is high wind that mono will be heeling a lot and you should put on a harness for safety if venturing out to mess with the lines or whatever. Cats, not so much. Seasicknes is also more prevalent on a mono. And do not discount the benefits of the bimini that most cats have. You are out of the weather and in the shade and trust me you want shade even while sailing. The nav station on a cat is always in the salon but in the mono it's down below. Many cats have engine controls at the nav station or under the bimini. Visualize motoring and it's pouring buckets. Your sails are down and you can motor from inside. On a mono you would have to be outside in the rain just so you can see. Yes, monos are cheaper per foot of length but when you add the greater living space of a cat the equation starts to even out. In your price range I would recommend a Gemini. It's not really a blue water cruiser but you can get a really nice one in your budget and you will be really happy with it and they are perfect for the islands. They are great boats. Otherwise get a mono. Just make sure to get some time in one in a decent wind to see if it's for you. They are just as seaworthy, pretty on the water and it's a sailboat and you might like it. But, I'm a cat fan. There I said it. So shoot me. BOB
Well done Bob, you have come out of the closet,!
2 things control our future, one is my RYA courses which start in a matter of weeks in Gibraltar and will include quite a bit of time on various vessels, I am no where near as experienced as most on the forum and have a lot to learn, not a bad thing!
Number 2 is the property we currently have on the market, we cant do anything until that moves! www.pubinspain.mijasgraphics.com (would love to find the person with the right boat that wants to use their boat as a down payment for our place!)
We have given what we think is a realistic time of approx 12 months from now before we set off, my friend who is traveling with us has 30 years sailing experience! Will we buy a boat in Florida or that area or will it be here in Europe? No idea, however, this thread alone has been HUGE for me, so thank you to everyone who has taken the time to post and continue to do so, I hope I am not the only one who is picking things up from the various thoughts and comments of others!
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Old 20-03-2011, 17:22   #74
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Re: Multi v Mono in Carribean

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Originally Posted by osirissail View Post
After four pages of pro's and con's about both cats and monos there is still the OP question of which would be best for cruising the Caribbean. And as some others and myself have mentioned cruising the islands involves more than 90% of your time at anchor/moored and less than 10% actually traveling between islands.
- - Distances in the passages between islands varies but can normally almost always be done in a less than a day sail. The rest of the inter-island sail is usually in the shelter (lee) of an island. And with sometimes multiple stops along the lee shores of an island.
- - This is where cats really come into their own. They are easy to maneuver (depending upon the skipper) and can anchor up close and personal to the beaches better than most monos. But where they really shine and are the envy of most all monos is their ability to remain quite stable in the rolly anchorges that are the rule in the Caribbean. In large anchorages you will see the masts of monos swinging perpetually back and forth while the masts of cats are hardly moving at all. That wide "footprint" really makes a significant comfort difference. And since 90% of your time is spent anchored there is a considerable enjoyment factor in cats versus monos.
- - Personally as a monohull owner/cruiser the constant rolling drives me from one anchorage to another looking for some stable water. So some nice places are bypassed. And as I go by I notice cats in there anchored and having a good time.
Excellent post, and it's the lack of rolling at anchor and sailing downwind that IMO are the big benefits of cats.

I'm really enjoying this thread, there is very little of the usual mono vs cat bunfighting.

I do agree that with such a budget, a good cat in good condition might take some finding, getting a good mono would be easier. But it's worth trying, IMO.
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Old 20-03-2011, 17:35   #75
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Re: Multi v Mono in Carribean

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As far as sea sickness the cat's don't wabble extra like most all monohulls do especially at anchor or moored where you want to be relaxing.
Actually, one of the major reasons we switched back to a mono is that my wife was never more seasick than on our 32-foot cat when offshore. She detested the quick motion you get when at sea, but she doesn't mind the slow roll of a heavy mono. We have talked to others that have found the same thing. In harbor, the cat will almost always have better motion due to lack of rolling, however, we found that if the waves were just right you could get a weird snap roll as one hull was on a crest and the other was in a trough. That happened to us a few times in rolly Caribbean anchorages, but the monos were doing worse under the same conditions. So it is worthwhile to check out various boats first to see how they feel to you, but it is hard to tell until you've spent quite a bit of time on each type.
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