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Old 19-03-2011, 07:57   #31
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Originally Posted by idpnd

Like the look of that catamaran
Does anyone here have any experience on a ketch catamaran? I'd be worried how high well she'd go to wind.
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Old 19-03-2011, 07:58   #32
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Re: Multi v Mono in Carribean

The safety issue has to do with the particular boat and the sailor. Cats have as good a safety record (probably better) than monos, and the good ones won't sink because they have watertight compartments. I really miss that about my cat. You will never be able to capsize a heavy cruising cat due to wind alone (something would break first), and you could only do it in heavy seas and great wind with great difficult by doing something really stupid. We've read on here lately of a few cats that have flipped, but they were much lighter high-performance designs, not typical heavy cruising cats. Cats do require more sail tending in bad weather in order not to be overcanvassed, and that can get a bit tiring. You don't hang onto sail like you can in a mono, so you tend to be up in the middle of the night taking in a reef more often. Actually, what we used to do was take a preemptive reef in just at dusk if the wind was high enough to keep us moving decently. The Caribbean has plenty of wind, so you will be reefing more on a cat.
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Old 19-03-2011, 08:43   #33
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pirate Re: Multi v Mono in Carribean

[QUOTE=pablothesailor;646881]
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Ola Pablo.........1975 Solaris Ketch Catamaran Sail New and Used Boats for Sale -
]

Looks well equiped boatman, quite old though, a previous poster had warned not to touch a Cat more than 20 years old??

Just to put a further spanner in the works, a Spanish friend of mine has just been round, he has sailed the MED for 20 years and is mortified I would even consider a Cat, he says in heavy seas there are serious safety issues and in that department the Mono is in a league of its own!
Does he have a point on the safety side??
Safety issues on Cats are the same as on mono's more or less... its down to the skipper whether it survives or not...
As to the age factor... I took a 40+yr old 9m Catalac from Ipswich to Pendik, Turkey last summer... 3000+ miles 90% on the nose.... yes we got hammered and damaged near Tarifa when an unforecast 50kt Easterly came through over an ingoing tide... she took a lot of water and for a while I worried she'd founder... but we got her into harbour ok...
But I should add.. a coupla big 50ft Cats also ran for cover and half a dozen Mono's which were also damaged... one of which had lost its rudder...
In heavy sea's its different tactic's... as the above indicates... take heavy sea's on the bow and you'll have problems... the extra windage makes steering difficult... I had to run both engines to max to keep her head up to avoid being broached...
Also the stresses involved as you drop hard off the top of a 15-20wave are huge... sooner or later something in that wide bottoms gonna give in those conditions.
So whats best is present your stern to the sea's and run before or trail a drogue to keep you slow n steady...
With a mono these factors are greatly lessened... they are much better able to take sea's head on...
Below the result of dropping repeatedly of big waves set close enough to go over one and under the other... lol
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Old 19-03-2011, 09:10   #34
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Re: Multi v Mono in Carribean

My Parents cat is well more than 20 years old, they had it built. The boat is well maintained, they spend 9 months of the year on it.
I see no problem with a 30+ year old boat if it has been looked after be it cat or mono, a cat does have a higher risk of the bridge deck being damaged, but I am yet to see that in my parents cat.. For the record, it's a 50ft Crowther design.

On the matter of safety I see cat's and mono's on pretty level footing, I have sailed a substantial number of miles in cats and have yet to come close to any near accidents in big cruising cats, my parents boat has weathered 70 knots, while it wasn't comfortable for them the boat certainly stood up to it.
I would have no qualm about stepping back onto a big cruising cat any time.
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Old 19-03-2011, 11:52   #35
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Re: Multi v Mono in Carribean

We bought our 02 Gemini 105MC last Oct in San Diego and love it. We kept looking untill this boat showed up on Yacht World at the price we could pay in cash $98,000.00. It had been gone thru and fixed up beautifully with new deck hardware (hinges and latches ) and rigging because it had been in Mission Bay where the jets drop lots of kerosine when taking off and it had discolored and corroded the 304SS parts but were replaced with 316SS. The sails are in great krisp shape except the screecher sail that they used mostly sailing back and forth from Catalina Island 19 times (that's all ). We don't mind the wave's slapping the bridge deck because were usually sailing lot's faster than anyone and the boat's made for it. The only problem is keeping stuff off the aft beds in case company comes. The master state room closet holds lots, like our musical instruments: 2 guitars, dobro, banjo, accoustic guitar bass, mandolin, fiddle, all in hard flight cases and some of our hanging cloths. The only thing that was missing was electronics which we moved from our other boat a 5208 Garmin chartplotter with all the stuff. Good shopping.
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Old 19-03-2011, 12:06   #36
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Re: Multi v Mono in Carribean

Pablo.

If you're thinking of visiting the more interesting (and MUCH cheaper) western Caribbean then a cat may not be the best idea. The average wave height is higher in the southern/western half of the area. Slamming has definitely been a problem in every cat I've sailed in these parts. On the other hand, if you do the run from Trinidad down to Panama, you'll fly! Beware the area between Aruba and Cabo de la vela; several yachts (including monos) have come a cropper there (but mostly going east).

Try the area around Nicaragua/Honduras, there are lots of interesting small islands and cayos and you can visit La Ceiba in Honduras for it's carnival (about this time of year). Your draft won't limit you as much as a mono's would.

Obviously your draft would open up a lot of good anchorages in the Bahamas and the Virgins.

Motley.
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Old 19-03-2011, 13:56   #37
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Re: Multi v Mono in Carribean

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to share views here, I must have had 15 PMs as well, please do post on here so everyone can benifit from your experience! I am still unsure but do at least have time on my side, I start my first RYA courses in Gibratar shortly and have much to do between now and the end of the year! I will be getting experience on several different boats during my courses, I hope to get a shot at taking a CAT out as well! It does seem that if you got 38ft Cat you are getting as much on board as a 48ft mono? My research shows 50% extra on CAT moorings (sometimes there is no premium), so a mono 48ft for a nite stop at $2 per foot would be $96....the Cat 38ft would be $76 plus 50% makes $114 an $8 difference!! Hmmm........
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Old 19-03-2011, 14:49   #38
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Re: Multi v Mono in Carribean

Hi Pablo,

I did say light the blue touch paper and stand back!

Though I must say this has been one of the most objective threads I have read on Cats vs. monos there is a lot of very good info here.

Just for the record I didn't say don't touch cats older than 20 years I just said your best to look at French production cats less than 20 years.
Generally these boats are well built and designed intelligently, it's not to say older boats and boats built on in another country aren't as good, in some case they may be better.
But as a simple starting point they provide a good bench mark and value for money.

The most important thing you must do is get onboard as many boats as you can and get a feel for them. Many boats, particularly older designs do not have as much room as the newer boats. Even some of the new boats still lag behind in ergonomic design with huge steps and berths that require some athleticism to get in and out of.

Finally if you are going to sail in open water avoid any cats with a low bridge deck clearance no mater how cheap they are. Because everyone agrees low bridge decks are bad except the people trying to sell cats with low bridge decks!
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Old 19-03-2011, 14:55   #39
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Wharram

Unique Wharram 38 for only $69,000. Multis for sale Rootin for ya Pablo.
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Old 19-03-2011, 15:05   #40
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Re: Wharram

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Unique Wharram 38 for only $69,000. Multis for sale Rootin for ya Pablo.
Thanks Bob, a good site!

When people talk about bridge clearance do they mean the lowest point under the boat or the ¨¨entrance¨¨ point? What sort of distance should we be looking at? I am guessing the earlier models had less clearance and as the years have gone by clearance has got greater to avoid Slamming?

By the way, in case some of you missed it, we have thsi property on the market but would accept a boat as part payment, you can PM on this subject if it is of interest to you! www.pubinspain.mijasgraphics.com
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Old 19-03-2011, 15:16   #41
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pirate Re: Wharram

Quote:
Originally Posted by pablothesailor View Post
When people talk about bridge clearance do they mean the lowest point under the boat or the ¨¨entrance¨¨ point? What sort of distance should we be looking at? I am guessing the earlier models had less clearance and as the years have gone by clearance has got greater to avoid Slamming?
Bridge deck clearance runs from bow to stern... some cats get slapped 3 times.. others twice...
A Catalac in a sea will slam bow, saloon and cockpit... others saloon and cockpit... and others just the saloon or cockpit... length plays a part as well...
James Wharrams larger cats (30ft+) work on 3ft clearance... but as the seas build the slamming will increase if heading them...
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Old 19-03-2011, 15:23   #42
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Bridgedeck clearance

The rule of thumb was 1" for every foot of beam. More is better. Ideally this should be continuous the full length and width of the bridgedeck. This creates numerous design issues and cat builders have come up with different methods of combatting the slap or pound while moving the clearance less than the rule especially in the smaller cats. Notably the Lagoons have a pronounced V under the deck which is supposed to breakup or disperse the wave action. People debate the effectiveness of this and other designs and I take no side. But, Dragonlady is right more is better especially far, far from shore. Once again it's all in Tarjans book. BOB
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Old 19-03-2011, 17:02   #43
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Re: Multi v Mono in Carribean

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Ola Pablo.........
Basically its what your plans for cruising are... if you intend to do a lot of upwind sailing get one of these
1991 Beneteau 45F5 Sail New and Used Boats for Sale - uk.yachtworld.com
If your going to do mainly downwind fair weather cruising the maybe one of these would be better suited for your needs..
1975 Solaris Ketch Catamaran Sail New and Used Boats for Sale -[/FONT]
Oh Dear - the old Cats cant go to windward mythology. Yes some cant - but if I couldn't get many modern cats to windward better than a bene mono - I would start to look at myself rather than the boat.
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Old 19-03-2011, 17:09   #44
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Re: Multi v Mono in Carribean

Where do we start?

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I'm one of the few people around who has cruised a lot on both.
Myself and all the cruising cat sailors I know came here from sailing monos. And every client I have had a mono before they bought a cat.

Quote:
From my observations (never owned one) the saildrive system is one of the most trouble-prone systems you can have.Friends on cats seem to always be repairing them or limping along on one engine or the other.
Why equate Cats with saildrives, mine doesnt have them, there are plenty of cats and tris with sail drives - outboards and shafts. And Idont hear near as many bad stories as you do.

I hate truisms in the boating world, they suggest that reality and improvement in design thought stopped in 1654 AD.
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Old 19-03-2011, 17:11   #45
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Re: Multi v Mono in Carribean

If you goggle good cat bad cat there is a website that discusses these issues.
Like Tarjan they are Fountain Pajot dealers and their argument promotes the FP design philosophy.
As an engineer I found merit in their points of view and I bought an FP cat, but everyone should make their own choice.
What ever you buy get the best boat you can afford, not the most expensive but the best design and condition.
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