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Old 25-12-2014, 22:44   #1
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Motor Sailer Cat

Does anyone know wher I might find a 34 to 38ft long max 16ft beam live aboard motor sailer cat that can cruise at 8-10 k and power 12 to 15k economically but still run and reach with the wind in the $100000 to $200000 range.
Is there a light cat sailing hull capable of that with maybe foresail only and no boom or maybe a small wishbone main.. I am also hoping for a motor cat type cabin the Americans seem to call "trawler" with most facilities up including a bunk. Maybe I need a motor cat that I can add a rag and stick to.
I currently sail a 2000 Seawind 1000 but we find a bit uncomfortable as a live aboard as we get older and motor as much as we sail.
I have actually found a 40ftx23ft cat with all up, jib and genoa only which test sailed 5k in 40deg 10k apparent wind and motors 8k max but is just too big when we have to spend time in expensive marinas at twice monohull price. Plus it is $300000.
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Old 26-12-2014, 06:15   #2
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Re: Motor Sailer Cat

Pdq 32 or 34 passage, almost 10mpg at 6.5 knots 7mpg at 9+ maxes at 16 knots, fits in standard slip and still very roomy. No sails though, maybe you could rig up a a giant kite?😁

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Old 26-12-2014, 06:46   #3
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Re: Motor Sailer Cat

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, phalo.
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Old 26-12-2014, 08:42   #4
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Re: Motor Sailer Cat

The problem you face is unrealstic expectations:
- There are power cats that can do 12-15kt under power but no where close to the economical cruise of a slower boat. You are fighting displacement hull speed by throwing lots of power at the problem (still faster than a similar size mono but you will burn a good amount of fuel maintaining those speeds)
- There are sail cats that are economical but with lower speeds.
Generally once they put in big engines, they skip the sails to control costs, otherwise, you have the added expense of two big motors plus the rigging and sails.

I'm not sure if they are in production but PDQ put out some trawler cats (no sails) that meet your definition...except for the sailing part. Of course there are still steps to get into the hulls and up to the bridge deck.

Realistically, for most people, they either accept economical and slower or fast and not so economical (at which point, they are realistic about rarely sailing anyway and eliminate the mast and it's overhead clearance issues.).
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Old 26-12-2014, 10:17   #5
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Re: Motor Sailer Cat

there is one 2001 PDQ 42 sailing cat left on the market "KOA KAI" for the low $300s which might fit your needs.
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Old 26-12-2014, 10:29   #6
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Re: Motor Sailer Cat

Many of the cats going into charter are outfitted with bigger engines to cater to the fact many charter folks drive them around more than actually sail. They still have normal sized sail rigging however. If motor sailor appeals to you, you can certainly just use the headsail. I do that a lot when I charter a cat.
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Old 26-12-2014, 10:42   #7
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Re: Motor Sailer Cat

Keep in mind the 42' cat and the charter cats likely don't fit the size requirement listed 34-38' long with 16' beam.

Yes, if you go bigger, you can get closer to the desired performance but with other tradeoffs. I presume the 16' beam is to allow access to standard slips and north of 40', beams are typically in excess of 18'.
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Old 26-12-2014, 15:59   #8
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Re: Motor Sailer Cat

Thank you for taking your time to give me feedback which was most appreciated. I have only found one claimed motor sailer production model available http://catamarans.tartanyachts.com/models/tartan-sc-44-motorsailer-catamaran/ but it has not yet been built.
I do think my solution will be a light displacement (3 to 4000kg) sailing cat with trawler cabin and two 50hp motors with maybe foils on the rudders to keep the stern up under power. Unless retractable hydrofoils are an option??? There is talk of an S shaped hull toward the stern to facilitate both power and sail?
I don't want extended high speed under power but would like it to get short distances quickly like an anchorage well before dark or out of the way of a storm two years ago I tried to avoid (while tracking it on storm radar) to avoid the lightening strikes which blew $7000 worth of instruments, though no physical damage to the yacht.
(By the way does anyone know what sort of risk there is for bodily damage or despatch from this life by lightening strike at sea. Wet decks etc would have to make it many times greater than on land)
Reducing the beam to 16ft concerns me and sails would have to suit though our sailing is generally east coast Australia behind islands and the Great Barrier Reef (up to 30k and 2m swell) with no plans of open ocean crossing except maybe island hopping to Indonesia and PNG
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Old 27-12-2014, 06:34   #9
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Re: Motor Sailer Cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos View Post
Pdq 32 or 34 passage, almost 10mpg at 6.5 knots 7mpg at 9+ maxes at 16 knots, fits in standard slip and still very roomy. No sails though, maybe you could rig up a a giant kite?😁

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I think a power cat with something like a parasail is going to be your best match. Motor to windward. Sail assist off wind.
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Old 28-12-2014, 00:59   #10
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Re: Motor Sailer Cat

Yes Belizesailor a good idea.
Has anyone any experience with a parachute sail on a power boat. How do you launch it and can you run off the wind at all with no keel. I have seen them advertised somewhere in the past, think it was ex army chutes.

I noticed an American design/built 9.7 Tomcat today which seemed ideal displacement 3 to 4000Kg and 2 x 9.8 motors. Does anyone have any idea how they motor cruise and if they would respond to 2 x 20HP. Our Seawind has 2x20Hp and cruises at 6k on 4000rev and might do half a k more and originally had 2 x 9.8 before I came on board but don't know what it could manage then.
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Old 28-12-2014, 04:20   #11
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Re: Motor Sailer Cat

This?
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Old 28-12-2014, 05:37   #12
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Re: Motor Sailer Cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by phalo View Post
Yes Belizesailor a good idea.
Has anyone any experience with a parachute sail on a power boat. How do you launch it and can you run off the wind at all with no keel. I have seen them advertised somewhere in the past, think it was ex army chutes.

I noticed an American design/built 9.7 Tomcat today which seemed ideal displacement 3 to 4000Kg and 2 x 9.8 motors. Does anyone have any idea how they motor cruise and if they would respond to 2 x 20HP. Our Seawind has 2x20Hp and cruises at 6k on 4000rev and might do half a k more and originally had 2 x 9.8 before I came on board but don't know what it could manage then.

Our old Seawind 1000 with the 9.9's would do similar speeds and top out in the mid 7's. Kinda strange........
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Old 28-12-2014, 14:58   #13
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Re: Motor Sailer Cat

django37 I did see that clip of the sailing cat at speed. It may have been a very light displacement cat but think I read at the time they were 100HP motors.
Does anyone recognise the catamaran type/model
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Old 28-12-2014, 15:38   #14
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Re: Motor Sailer Cat

My stiletto would do that for $12K. Yes, the key was light weight.

Sail up to 20 kn, but 12-15 kn easily
Power 12 kn (18hp)

If the Seawind does not satisfy--a nice cat--then I think a powerboat is going to be the answer. Also, the ugly truth is that many sailors motor ~ 1/2 the time. Either the wind dies or it is light and dead on the nose, and then there are all of the river and harbor miles. Often schedules are the problem; you've got somewhere to be, and though sailing at 4kn might be relaxing, it's not getting you there.
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Old 28-12-2014, 15:49   #15
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Re: Motor Sailer Cat

Phalo,

Bob oram has some designs and kits exactally what you are seeking. Bob is currently retired and his website is down but there may be some secondhand.
His hulls seen to convert well between power and sail .

cheers
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