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Old 18-06-2011, 13:10   #46
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Re: Motor boat versus sail boat

One thing not mentioned yet is how a trawler compares to a sailing cat on lightning strikes. I have been doing some research here and this site has some recent stats that have made me rethink a sailing cat.

Catamarans

Chances of a lightning strike with a sailing cat 9.1 per 1000
Chances of a lightning strike with a trawler .18 per 1000

Damage for a cat on a scale of 1 to 10 is 10
Damage for a trawler is 6

So a sailing cat is 50x more likely to get hit and it will sustain nearly 2x the damage vs a trawler.

How much fuel could you buy for the cost and agrivation of a lightning strike?

One other thing I was wondering, have kites progressed to a point where they could be a viable option for sailing a power cat on a long passage?

Thoughts?
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Old 18-06-2011, 13:18   #47
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Re: Motor boat versus sail boat

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Originally Posted by capcook View Post
One thing not mentioned yet is how a trawler compares to a sailing cat on lightning strikes. I have been doing some research here and this site has some recent stats that have made me rethink a sailing cat.

Catamarans

Chances of a lightning strike with a sailing cat 9.1 per 1000
Chances of a lightning strike with a trawler .18 per 1000

Damage for a cat on a scale of 1 to 10 is 10
Damage for a trawler is 6

So a sailing cat is 50x more likely to get hit and it will sustain nearly 2x the damage vs a trawler.

How much fuel could you buy for the cost and agrivation of a lightning strike?

One other thing I was wondering, have kites progressed to a point where they could be a viable option for sailing a power cat on a long passage?

Thoughts?

What are you rating the damage on? Money? Seeing the difference in electronics on your average trawler to a sailboat, how could there be that much difference? What else get's damaged? A side note to that would be the electronics for the motor getting zapped. On a trawler, you would be dead in the water after that strike if your modern electronically controlled diesel took the spike.
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Old 18-06-2011, 13:18   #48
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Last trip I made from Annapolis to palm beach in a 40ft powerboat cost $6000 in fuel. Made same trip on a 38ft sailboat cost $100 in fuel.
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Old 18-06-2011, 13:19   #49
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Re: Motor boat versus sail boat

Strange statistics,
I assume though that the trawler may be a steel hull and therefore incredibly well grounded. Im sure on this forum they´re are lots of Multihull sailors who have never been struck by lighting, im not sure if i would base my purchase on lighting strikability.

You can ground the cat through both hulls, and install a type of soft start so that if the electrics do get tripped then they wont spike and therefore blow...
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Old 18-06-2011, 14:05   #50
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Re: Motor boat versus sail boat

Done both...lived aboard both...prefer the living area and convenience of a trawler...also can afford the fuel to some degree.

For all the "sailing" die hards...why all the sailboats with no masts or masts down traveling the ICW every year????

I know why...do you????
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Old 18-06-2011, 14:07   #51
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Re: Motor boat versus sail boat

Here's the dash of a Nordy 40. I don't know how many sailboats are running thi$ much money in gadgets. I know to people who had their powerboats get zapped by near strikes. They lost everything including the engine electronics. That would be a bad thing 1,500 miles offshore. I'm pretty sure that's outside Vessel Assist's range....
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Old 18-06-2011, 14:09   #52
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Re: Motor boat versus sail boat

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Here's the dash of a Nordy 40. I don't know how many sailboats are running thi$ much money in gadgets. I know to people who had their powerboats get zapped by near strikes. They lost everything including the engine electronics. That would be a bad thing 1,500 miles offshore. I'm pretty sure that's outside Vessel Assist's range....
There's a boatload of people who can't even USE all their electronics...they can afford them...but they still wind up on the beach, rocks, Navaid, etc...etc... so why worry about lightning strikes...
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Old 18-06-2011, 14:33   #53
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Re: Motor boat versus sail boat

We buddy boated with friends in a 42' trawler over fairly long distances. I would guess that the power boat, over a long period of time, is many times over more expensive. (Between 5 and 10 X) Our boat does, however, sail well, even to windward... And we don't often use our 18 hp engine. We charge our batteries with solar.
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Old 18-06-2011, 15:10   #54
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Re: Motor boat versus sail boat

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Originally Posted by Gracies View Post
Strange statistics,
I assume though that the trawler may be a steel hull and therefore incredibly well grounded. Im sure on this forum they´re are lots of Multihull sailors who have never been struck by lighting, im not sure if i would base my purchase on lighting strikability.

You can ground the cat through both hulls, and install a type of soft start so that if the electrics do get tripped then they wont spike and therefore blow...
Powerboats do get hit less often, presumably from being so much lower to the water.

Amoung multihulls, trimarans have the lightning advantage of a straighter path to ground. We have an "00" sized copper wire, routed 24" straight down to the 2 sq ft copper grounding plate.

On catamarans there is a challenge. A wire from the mast base making two 90 degree turns on it's wire route to the grounding plate, or plates, is problematic. Lightning doesn't like sharp turns, as it's movin pretty fast! You can ground the SS shroud wires in a more direct route, but they would have to be like, several inches thick, to = the conductivity of a "00" copper wire. (SS is a very POOR conductor compared to copper).

I think, however, that in a cat, I would still ground the rig to two hull plates, as well as the mast, and if you live & cruise where you feel it is warranted, you "could" even have a 15' long X 2" wide, copper braided strap, that is hardwired to the mast base but normally tied tight under the wing. If your hair starts standing up, untie the strap, let it drop, and you DO have a straight path to ground.

A steel hulled, monohull, trawler, is the safest bet regarding lightning.

Mark
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Old 18-06-2011, 15:31   #55
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Re: Motor boat versus sail boat

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Originally Posted by Mark Johnson View Post

A steel hulled, monohull, trawler, is the safest bet regarding lightning.

Mark
Naahhh, a submarine (submerged) is the best!
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Old 18-06-2011, 15:44   #56
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Re: Motor boat versus sail boat

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Originally Posted by Mark Johnson View Post

A steel hulled, monohull, trawler, is the safest bet regarding lightning.
That's I except for the shorty mast, with lightning rod.

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Old 18-06-2011, 16:25   #57
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Re: Motor boat versus sail boat

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Naahhh, a submarine (submerged) is the best!
TOUCHE!
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Old 18-06-2011, 16:26   #58
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Re: Motor boat versus sail boat

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That's I except for the shorty mast, with lightning rod.

VERY salty looking trawler you've got there! I like it.

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Old 18-06-2011, 16:36   #59
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Re: Motor boat versus sail boat

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Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Some do. Not all. I use my motors less than 100 hrs per year. And I Sail a lot. But I absolutely agree that many people would be better off with power cats - designed from the start to be powercats
Sailboat under power = hours per gallon
Powerboat = gallons per hour
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Old 18-06-2011, 17:04   #60
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Re: Motor boat versus sail boat

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Originally Posted by Gracies View Post
Professionally i run a large fully displacement motor yacht. We have 2 1200hp diesels engines, 2 generators, watermaker etc. etc. I also run with 6 crew, including a proffessional y4 engineer. However in general all yearly servicing of watermakers, generators, fuel pumps, engines etc. has to be outsourced to keep manufacturer warranty.

Yearly it costs my boss around 10% of the Value (from New) of the Yacht to keep it managed, fueled and maintained to a proffessional level. Of this 10% around 4% is maintenance, 1% is wages 1% is food and provisions and 2% is berthing and insurance and the remainding 2% is fuel for our 3 month cruising period.
So this is at the extereme end of a motor vessel
Not one that a couple would typicaly cruise


Quote:
When compared to my Sailing yacht where 100% of the maintenance is done by myself and not outsourced my costs are still around 10% of the value but this is only on ´new´ items, berthing and insurance.
I could use an extreme sailing vessel like

for my argument and blow a typical couples power cruisers cost out of the water as well.
But that would be disingenuous

Quote:
My point is is that generally most competent sailing yachtsmen can maintain there yacht fairly free of charge for large parts of year, most cruisers will do all there fouling painting varnish etc. However how many competent motor yachtsmen can strip and rebuild large diesel engines, or service the membranes on their already expensive watermakers??
40-50 foot Sailing vessels have motors around the same size of mine (2 x 65hp)
Many Sailing vessels also have watermakers.
Are you trying to say that these will not need servicing because they are in a sailing vessel?
Quote:
Generally on a similar sized motor or sailing vessel you will find that by far the motor yacht has a much larger volume, and generally more expensive machinery,
Generally
But not if comparing like for like
Quote:
and as Cat man doo mentioned he requires certain elements on board to make his cruisng more enjoyable which is the same on most motor yachts (television, satellite comms, large generator, 2 engines etc.)
Incorrect
2 engines because its a cat, as all do
I will have a TV, as most live aboard sailing boats have
I will not have a large genny, I will have a honda 2kva and solar
Quote:
When maintained well these items are fantastic and will last many many years.
I would like to think that because the engines are actually being used, that they would probably last better than a lot of the rotten lumps of ill maintained metal that I see in the bowels of sailing vessels.

Quote:
However when they go wrong it can get horrendously expensive and therefore i believe that in the long run you will find motor yachts eating up vastly more money because when that port engine requires a rebuild and needs to be removed and you have to cut a whole in the hull to get it out
As will the replacement on the motor on a lot of siling vessels
As will the cost of replacing a dropped rig, or shredded sails, or just replacing wire and cloth when worn.


Quote:
your going to spend more money than a similar sized sailing yacht has spent in the past 10 years
People who are actually out there doing it now, on the right vessel, disagree
They say the costs are comparable
They say the comfort levels are miles in front
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