Motor boat versus sail boat

[Blue Crab]

I keep thinking about rising fuel costs making powerboats all but obsolete.

Til my current boat, I've never had a reliable diesel. I waited on the wind or a had a long series of crappy outboards that could be counted on to be not count-on-able. Even in "retirement", I can afford the feed for 12 horses.

Yes, I know what dacron is made of and prices will continue to rise but most of us can and do live comfortably with under-performing sails.

But I really think there is an essential difference between sailors and powerboaters that determines what you buy.

[Steve29928]

Isn't this like asking which is better baseball or basket ball?
Both sailboats and motorboats use water, but almost everything else is different.
Which is better is a very personal choice.
I would not mind having one of each.
If cost is important a boat is not a good choice.
Steve

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by daddle

Duh, cruising boats. Feel comfortable motoring your motor-only trawler ...oops... cat 8000 miles from San Francisco to Palau? That's what I mean by reliable.

Well you wouldn't do it in one hop would you?
Surely you would take your time and take in the sights along the way.

I can carry approx 2400 litres in 8 separate tanks, they are built in already.
I also have two vast lockers, one either side of the anchor locker that can also carry bladders, if need be with an additional 800 litres each, so a possible max fuel capacity of 4000 litres, if I really had to.

I would like to think, on one engine doing 8 knots, that I would get around the 1 litre/nm.

Approx Distances from:
LA to Hawaii = 2135nm
Hawaii to Majuro = 2040nm
Majuro to Pohnpei = 770nm
Pohnpei to Weno = 380nm
Weno to Palau = 1045nm

Seems to me that it is entirely possible.

[simonmd]

Originally Posted by cat man do

Add in the cost of rig, winches etc
Thanks

Proven by the fact that the worlds commercial shipping, cruise liners, ferries etc are sail boats

Oh wait

Not fair to use commercial shipping as an example for two reasons, speed and reliability. If you have a shipment on a sailing boat and the wind drops, it can be a week or more late!

In the pleasure world then it really is down to size and use. Someone who wants to spend most of their time at the dock will be better off with a powerboat as the space and layout will be better and no masts, rigging, sails, etc. to service and repair.

With fuel over £1per liter though, anything that uses it as it's main source of locomotion is going to be overtaken by sail in cost terms as soon as the miles add up.

Am average suite of sails costs about £8000 in these parts, if not too roughly used you can expect 10 years out of them so thats £1000 per year roughly once youve added the odd extra like running rigging, new sail bag, etc. My powerboat can use that in fuel in a day!!

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by tgzzzz

But I really think there is an essential difference between sailors and powerboaters that determines what you buy.

For me it was a want of being on the water, regardless
*with large amounts of refrigeration and the power to run it
*a proper King size bed
*a comfortable lounging area
*a large shaded area
*ability to carry a 12 ft rigid dinghy as a minimum
and work in an area where the winds are predominately light.

The cost of having all of that in a sailing vessel, that actually sailed in those light airs was prohibitive and would have bordered on the ridiculous for two people to handle.

I would prefer a sailing vessel, and have had several fine ones before, but reality dictates that for me, a purely motored vessel seemed the logical choice, seeing as I would have 2 diesels, shafts and props in the vessel anyway.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by simonmd

With fuel over £1per liter though, anything that uses it as it's main source of locomotion is going to be overtaken by sail in cost terms as soon as the miles add up.

Depends where you are
I posted a link earlier for the fuel barge in Langkawi, diesel is 0.70c aud (.45p) per litre.

It also depends on what sort of vessel you choose to sail and live aboard
Sure, I could use a J24 as a sailing example and yes, the rig and sails would be cheap, but that is not realistic.

Am average suite of sails costs about £8000 in these parts, if not too roughly used you can expect 10 years out of them so thats £1000 per year roughly once youve added the odd extra like running rigging, new sail bag, etc. My powerboat can use that in fuel in a day!!

£1000 = $1527aud = 2181 litres of diesel = 2100 nm of motoring , hopefully , for my vessel.

Thats about 6 mths worth, possibly a year, if only travelling to the next island and staying for a week.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by tgzzzz

I keep thinking about rising fuel costs making powerboats all but obsolete.

Til my current boat, I've never had a reliable diesel. I waited on the wind or a had a long series of crappy outboards that could be counted on to be not count-on-able. Even in "retirement", I can afford the feed for 12 horses.

Yes, I know what dacron is made of and prices will continue to rise but most of us can and do live comfortably with under-performing sails.

But I really think there is an essential difference between sailors and powerboaters that determines what you buy.

Classic.

As long as people have money..meaning not depending on free wind...there will be power boats.

Also...motorboats have VERY reliable diesels. People have been motoring all over the world for nearly a century now.

Sailboat diesels may be unreliable as are most generators on pleasure craft because they aren't run ENOUGH....

Some of us trawler guys had enough blue water sailing to switch from one to another...as far as reliable or safe??? Many powerboaters never get knocked down and lose their "engines" because they get away from storms not sail through them or get caught by them. It's not so much a "difference" in powerboaters and sailors because I live on one but do some of the other because I do like the feeling of sailing on big sailboats...it's just one little piece of your cruising life unless you can't pay the fuel bill. And for many cruisers...the fuel bill even for powerboaters is only a small part of our cruising lifestyle.

All that said...I can't imagine including the avreage motor boat in the micro cruising budget category...but.... I met a gentleman one time who worked in a furniture factory. All his working life he saw the pallets and shipping wood tossed out. So one day he started collecting the wood. Never even read a book on boatbuilding. Built himself a nifty little cruiser and was cruising on a little savings and social security. AND having fun AND not reading cruising forums to get all worried why he could or couldn't do it.

[zeehag]

when ye can turn off engine and use sails for over 120 miles in one day, a sailboat is less pricey to run. cannot do that in a power boat.

[MarkJ]

I would have thought all motor boats are more expensive than equivalent sailing boats doing longish term cruising where the boats actually move not just grow attached to the bottom.

I was talking to a few of them the other night and they were heading to unsecure Venezuela to fill up with inferior diesel. I just went to the fuel wharf 300 meters away.

Theres probably some that think they are cheaper than a sailing boat, but hey, there seems to be people on yachts that write they are doing it on $500 per month. So a motor boat being as comparatively frugal would not be much fun to me.

Also its hard to find a comparison with motor boats. They do have larger floor spaces, they nearly always have freezers, or bigger freezers, they less often have solar panels, they more often seem to charge by engine than yachts. Its getting pretty rare for a yacht here to need to charge by engine at all! I did 15 minutes last night because there were too many squalls yesterday.

Sure sails cost money, but comparative boats, a racing yacht is not a cruising yacht per say, so its apples and oranges.

Most often the argument is biased: The most frugal Motor Boat guy Vs the most berserko money spender on some high tech yacht.

Oh, and Captains hats cost more! Because Motor Boaters wear them and we don't see the need



Mark

[Unicorn Dreams]

Complete set of sails $4500
New standing rigging $4000
RTW 30,000+ miles

Mast and rigging was on the boat when bought, so that's just a part of the boat. Boat is 35 yrs old, less than 300 hours on engine, make too much damn noise.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by zeehag

when ye can turn off engine and use sails for over 120 miles in one day, a sailboat is less pricey to run. cannot do that in a power boat.

When ye dont spend $70,000 on mast rigging, winches and sails
and are based in an area where their is little wind and cheap diesel
ye has plenty of money for fuel

Your formosa would be motoring anyway, if there was little to no wind

Consider the costs for a vessel of my liking

Intital outlay for rig and sails $70,000
new sails and rigging wire every 10 years $20,000
Left in a fixed interest bank account in Australia earns 6.5%

Thats $5800 a year to spend of fuel
0.70 c/l in Malaysia = 8285 litres a year

I doubt I could use that much fuel

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Unicorn Dreams

Complete set of sails $4500
New standing rigging $4000
RTW 30,000+ miles

One new Main $1,700
Replace broke rigging $1,600
RTW 33,000 miles


LOL

Mark
PS: Beer $480,000,000 aprox.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

They do have larger floor spaces, they nearly always have freezers, or bigger freezers, they less often have solar panels, they more often seem to charge by engine than yachts. Its getting pretty rare for a yacht here to need to charge by engine at all!

Sailing background and sailing systems
Roof area is 36m2, a lot of it will be solar panels.

As usual, the arguments here are getting pretty stupid

Someone cruised the world on a J24 with second hand sails, therefore sailing boats are cheap
and they only choose to compare their cost against powered boats that guzzle 100 litres and hour

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by cat man do

As usual, the arguments here are getting pretty stupid

Thanks. I thought mine were quite well worked out.

Yours is a pretty specialised motor boat. I haven't seen any like yours doing long cruising. An exception doesn't break a generalisation.

If you do it cheaper than me, fine.

Interesting is Unicorn Dreams: RTW "less than 300 hours on engine". That is truly exceptional!

Mark

[Unicorn Dreams]

MarkJ
That's all you spent on beer??
Must not be able to hold your beer anymore...

My father owned this boat originally and our dock in the Fl. Keys was right on the GOM so we almost never used the engine to leave the dock. Sold the boat, next owner sailed for about 8 yrs. put the boat on the hard to paint bottom and he died, boat sat on the hard for 19 yrs. Family didn't want to sell Daddy's boat.
We bought the boat back a couple of years ago.