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Old 05-07-2013, 08:49   #31
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Re: Most Reliable Multihull Boat

And if you go to this page and click on each model then it will tell you how many Lagoon made of each. And that is 423 units for the L440. I think I put this in my other thread.
Lagoon catamarans : building, sale and chartering of luxury cruising catamarans
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:57   #32
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Re: Most Reliable Multihull Boat

FWIW. This from Leopard:

In early 2012 the 1,000th Leopard Catamaran was launched, further establishing Robertson and Caine’s position in the catamaran market.

I'm not makin a commentary on reliableness. Just these fun facts.
About Leopard Catamarans | Leopard Catamarans US
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:11   #33
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Re: Most Reliable Multihull Boat

Very interesting discussion -I am looking to buy a used 12m cat in next couple of years - I want the space a cat offers. I agree that so much is down to prev owner. My next task is to actually get on a few types - Lagoon / FP etc. Any ideas - Solent? Would pay!

New to this -I see adding final quotes is popular - I would suggest my favourite Shakespear put down

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Old 01-09-2013, 04:42   #34
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Re: Most Reliable Multihull Boat

Statistics are wonderfull things, you can make them prove anything. It is all in the qualfying question.

So "how many cats sold per model", has less traction than "how many cats per model are sold to owner sailors who intend to keep their boats for at least a decade".

The first numbers will be hopelessly distorted by the charter market, whereas the second will be for the somewhat more discerning owner with an eye to how the quality will affect the eventual value.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:13   #35
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Re: Most Reliable Multihull Boat

Very good point. Certainly the Lagoons appear to be Sunsail and others choice. Would suggest they are rugged but may not be the ideal choice for a boat with better perfoarmance.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:26   #36
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Re: Most Reliable Multihull Boat

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Originally Posted by neill View Post
Very good point. Certainly the Lagoons appear to be Sunsail and others choice. Would suggest they are rugged but may not be the ideal choice for a boat with better perfoarmance.
Dunno how you draw that conclusion. Putting boats into charter is a simple mathematical process, (A)Input cost, (B)operating cost, (c)output return. (A-c) + B divided by expected charter night frequency Gives you a cost per night (D) If D is less than the cost per night that the boat can make, you are on a winner. It is cost accounting pure and simple. The Lagoons do an excellent job of making boats that are attractive to the charter trade, big bunks, big heads. The are very successful for that reason.

Longevity doesn't usually enter into it, most charter companies don't want boats older than 5 and preferably younger in their fleet, hardly enough time to require much ruggedness.

Sheer production numbers is also not much of a guide, Outremer haven't built anything like the number of boats that FP and Lagoon have, but they are probably, on a percentage basis, the most circumnavigating brand there is.

A well built design like a Simpson or Grainger or Oram similar may in fact be more reliable than many production boats.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:38   #37
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Re: Most Reliable Multihull Boat

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I mostly worked on lagoon 44 that have done 1 ocean crossing, post 2005. Structural problems are deck and hull joint that just blow off, the official lagoon technician maintenance in this case is : stuffing sikaflex inbetween then releasing power in the stays, bad quality stainless steel pillar that shears off, hinge that fell off when interior is foam + 1 layer of plywood....etc
The Lagoon 38 is one of the most reliable, but for me it's still a caravan that has poor perfomances at sea, which is only good for coastal cruising or island hoping.
Btw, if I had spent all my money in a boat which is a big sh@!!t, I will say it's the perfect boat not to lose face.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:04   #38
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Re: Most Reliable Multihull Boat

For quality, I would buy a Catana. I think Privilege can be a good shot too. But I know more Catanas than Privileges hence my vote.

In the older designs, I often look at Prouts and see many good things in them. But I know from another thread that some bigger more recent models had some issues.

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Old 01-09-2013, 07:40   #39
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And don't get overly bound up in the cat brand per se, but rather the brand and quality of the fittings, e.g. cheap pumps versus good quality pumps, crap refrig systems versus well thought out systems, electrical systems built using highest quality components and systems built using crap components and similar.
I disagree with you for once Factor.

Post is about longevity and therefore as i see it the hulls and bridgedeck are the most important bit. All the other systems whether plumbing electrical or even rigging is going to need replacing eventually but well built hulls and deck will stand up to the punishment dealt out
Ie fiberglass aint fiberglass ...

+1 catana and the kevlar and carbon fibre reinforcing
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:17   #40
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Re: Most Reliable Multihull Boat

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For quality, I would buy a Catana.
Not in general - there were several periods of very poor quality Catana's. The company has changed hands several times over the years, with different results in build quality.

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Old 01-09-2013, 08:23   #41
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Re: Most Reliable Multihull Boat

The most reliable boat of any kind is the one you don't have.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:26   #42
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Re: Most Reliable Multihull Boat

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For quality, I would buy a Catana. I think Privilege can be a good shot too. But I know more Catanas than Privileges hence my vote.
In the older designs, I often look at Prouts and see many good things in them. But I know from another thread that some bigger more recent models had some issues.
I bought a Privilege for the same reason. The quality shouts at you as soon as you get onboard. The Prouts have a good overall reputation as an older boat, but, as in any mass produced item, there are always exceptions, or Friday afternoon jobs. For example, the odds of getting a good boat show boat from Prout was quite low, as they were invariably late for the show, and thrown together with whatever was around at the time to make it look good. Mild steel fittings have been found in a few of those boat show boats.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:55   #43
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Re: Most Reliable Multihull Boat

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The most reliable boat of any kind is the one you don't have.
Totally disagree. The most reliable one is dependent on the degree of care and attention that is provided by the owner, where they have become accustomed to all the quirks and foibles of the boat and can quickly tell when something changes.

After a few years of dedicated attention, a mini can become more reliable than a Rolls Royce.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:14   #44
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...

And is it possible to reduce the likelihood of having problems by swapping out certain parts or equipment. If you were designing a boat, what would you put in it or change from what was done on your boat?

...
I think any current major production cats, or monos for that matter, are plenty "reliable" in general. All boats have maintenance issues of course...its just the nature of boats. Ive captained most the brands mentioned and seen how they hold up in charter use so have a pretty good reference. Based upon that experience, If I were to design my ideal boat, which Ive been doing in my head for a few years now, some maintenance related items I would change:

In general, I would go as "home depot" as feasible, so that repairs could be effected as much as possible with locally/regionally available parts and skills.

No sail drives. Expensive, proprietary parts; tools; and skills required to repair. Basic shaft installation which can be repaired/replaced anywhere w basic machine shop serices.

Skeg hung rudders and protected prop. Ever hit a fishing net in a typical modern cat? It aint pretty...exposed sail drives/props and spade rudders just love fishing nets...and this creates not only an immediate hassle, but also maint issues like scored prop shafts and damaged seals. I like Wharrams idea of lifting prop shafts...eliminates thru hull, reduces drag, and you cant foul a prop that aint in the water.

No wood ANYWHERE. Inside or out. Just a maintenance issue waiting to happen. A pair of sister ship Voyages I run sometimes are like this...not a scrap of wood .

No foam backed headliner material. Time release problem waiting to happen.

No Windows. Proper hatches only, windows are a continuos maintenance issues, good hatches (not Lewmar) can be serviced easier and opened for ventilation.

Tank access. All tanks should be easy to access and remove. My W35 is like this, I can remove any tank on the boat relatively easily to repair, replace, clean.

Easy maintenance access. If something is hard to get to then it wont get properly maintained. Batteries are one of the most common examples of this, but also applies to engines, steering gear,etc.

Plumbing. PVC tubing and hardware store fixtures...none of this overpriced and unreliable, and often plastic, "marine" crap.

"Marine" Diesels are one of the biggest rip offs afloat. Marinize a widley used truck motor and get inexpesive parts and skills world wide.


.....and much more...
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:22   #45
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Re: Most Reliable Multihull Boat

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Not in general - there were several periods of very poor quality Catana's. The company has changed hands several times over the years, with different results in build quality.

Mark
I stand corrected. I only know Catanas newer than year 2000.

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