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Old 03-01-2015, 09:02   #1
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More late model cats coming out of charter? Time to rethink

I've been studying my likely next purchase and focused on the Mahe 36 but as the 2009/2010 Leopard 38s roll out of charter programs, it appears to be a better value. http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/cate...ine/Leopard+38
Bigger boat, slower maybe but more possibilities as you can refine to taste in planned refit. I like the design moreso than Lagoon 380 as an in between size, bigger than the Mahe. Who is planning on doing this currently?
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Old 04-01-2015, 11:35   #2
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Re: More late model cats coming out of charter? Time to rethink

Seems there are very few Leopard available on the market at least by now. So you may need to factor in a premium for a long delivery trip. I would not want to do a delivery from the seychelles in an unknown ex-charter boat, nor would i want to outfit a charter boat for ocean passages in an area like the seychelles.

Plus for the price of a Leopard plus outfit I would have a chat with Cotemar about the Mahe he has for sale. Guessing from the photos there is not much i would want to refit on his boat. Same cost, but more time for sailing.
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Old 04-01-2015, 12:19   #3
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Re: More late model cats coming out of charter? Time to rethink

All good points and appreciated Rabbi. Mahe is desirable but as I move closer to buy time, I want to develop a realistic boat list that does not lock me into a narrow set of choices. More Leapords, less Mahes. Yes, I know that Lagoon 380s are probably more abundant but that boat is just too big for my singlehanded plans.
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Old 04-01-2015, 15:16   #4
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Re: More late model cats coming out of charter? Time to rethink

I think 5 years is the normal charter period for new boats. So you are close to there.
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Old 09-01-2015, 04:35   #5
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Re: More late model cats coming out of charter? Time to rethink

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Seems there are very few Leopard available on the market at least by now. So you may need to factor in a premium for a long delivery trip. I would not want to do a delivery from the seychelles in an unknown ex-charter boat, nor would i want to outfit a charter boat for ocean passages in an area like the seychelles.

Plus for the price of a Leopard plus outfit I would have a chat with Cotemar about the Mahe he has for sale. Guessing from the photos there is not much i would want to refit on his boat. Same cost, but more time for sailing.

Makes sense Rabbi. What's your view as a Mahe owner concerning Mahes in charter? My research tells me there aren't many.
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Old 11-01-2015, 17:37   #6
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Re: More late model cats coming out of charter? Time to rethink

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Makes sense Rabbi. What's your view as a Mahe owner concerning Mahes in charter? My research tells me there aren't many.
Generally speaking i am not a fan of ex-charter boats. The level of maintenance is sub-standard in many.
However mine was an ex-charter that has done 3 or 4 seasons before it was sold to the guy i bought her from.

She withstood the abuse very well, in fact much better than any boat i have ever chartered. My guess is the Mahe is not big enough for most booze charters, so it's more a family charter boat.
That may be a reason why there are so few Mahe in charter. Family charter is not a big business.
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Old 11-01-2015, 17:51   #7
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Re: More late model cats coming out of charter? Time to rethink

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All good points and appreciated Rabbi. Mahe is desirable but as I move closer to buy time, I want to develop a realistic boat list that does not lock me into a narrow set of choices. More Leapords, less Mahes. Yes, I know that Lagoon 380s are probably more abundant but that boat is just too big for my singlehanded plans.
The best way to find a good deal is to be open for what is available on the market. If something comes along that looks like a bargain, act fast.

I wasn't looking for a Mahe, i just happened to stumble over a good deal. Same for my previous boats.

I don't see much difference in handling a Mahe and a 380. The 380 is heavier and has more volume, but the length is not too far off. Before the Mahe I sailed a Lagoon 410 and never had issues, including a trans-atlantic. Granted, not really singlehanded but extreme shorthanded (non-sailing wife with 2 pre-school kids, so not much help).
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Old 11-01-2015, 19:23   #8
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Re: More late model cats coming out of charter? Time to rethink

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you may need to factor in a premium for a long delivery trip. I would not want ... to outfit a charter boat for ocean passages in an area like the seychelles.


Our plan was to buy an ex-charter boat.

A friend who has done it twice in recent years suggested we add 20k to our budget for flying down to view the boat, flying back after the purchase, shipping gear out there, outfitting in an expensive place, etc.

When factoring this is we found a boat closer to home.

That being said, the guy we bought out boat from turned around and bought his new cat from sunsail. It was missing an engine, they installed a new one.

He did have to end up flying crew down and such to help deliver the boat back, but in the end I think he is happy and I think under different circumstances we could have bought an ex-charter boat and been just as happy.
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Old 11-01-2015, 19:39   #9
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Re: More late model cats coming out of charter? Time to rethink

Thanks Chad. I can see the value in building into the budget, the various costs to cover all eventualities, and then in the process, capturing and employing that info to a refreshed view of the list of boats that make sense to satisfy your needs.
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Old 11-01-2015, 19:43   #10
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Re: More late model cats coming out of charter? Time to rethink

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My guess is the Mahe is not big enough for most booze charters, so it's more a family charter boat.
That may be a reason why there are so few Mahe in charter. Family charter is not a big business.

Now that's a truly unique insight. I did locate a big charter company offering Mahes, Dream Charter. I'll be looking deeper into their phase outs.
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Old 11-01-2015, 19:45   #11
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More late model cats coming out of charter? Time to rethink

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The best way to find a good deal is to be open for what is available on the market. If something comes along that looks like a bargain, act fast.

Yes! That's exactly my strategy to get my next boat. I've recently expanded my list to include monohulls like the 2012 Oceanis 41, or the moorings version of that model. I also am attracted to the Tartan 3400. So, mono and multi will fit my bill.
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Old 12-01-2015, 06:50   #12
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Re: More late model cats coming out of charter? Time to rethink

I would not go _that_ far to consider a mono ...

However the strategy is valid. Last time i wanted a Privilege 37 and ended up with a Lagoon 410. This time i shopped for a 380 and got a nice Mahe.
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Old 13-01-2015, 07:17   #13
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Re: More late model cats coming out of charter? Time to rethink

Thanks rabbi for a little voice of reason. Certain trade-offs still apply based on 1 hull vs. 2 regardless of the deal.
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Old 14-01-2015, 01:00   #14
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Re: More late model cats coming out of charter? Time to rethink

In my case the trade off is simple.
2 hull - happy kids and wife - happy life
1 hull - sailing solo or not at all

But thats just me and my family, maybe other folks have wifes who like to live at 30degree heel
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Old 08-03-2015, 11:47   #15
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More late model cats coming out of charter? Time to rethink

Belizebound's post from another thread intrigued me...

Walkabout, Do you know a lot about the Charter Deals? My charter deal, when My Lagoon 400 S2 Finally arrives in BVI in 2 weeks, 45 days late, is that I own 55% of the vessel in a Joint LLC & paid $270,000 for an all options included Cat. The Charter company pays everything from Maintanence, replacement parts to insurance. I pay Nothing. She stays in charter for 5 years, where I get 12 weeks/ year use. 2 weeks in Prime Time, & I am allowed to sell 3 weeks of the remaining 10/ year as long as I don't use a 3rd party for advertisement. I own the Cat at the end of 5 years for $1.00. Personally I don't care if they Ever Charter it as it has no effect on me.. Have you had any experience with this scenario??

The issue on charter besides my time frame being shorter than four years is the extra costs involved which in total are not insignificant. I cannot afford 12 weeks away from my job as things would fall apart. The extra costs of getting to the boat eats up vacation time and funding. The financial risk is always there. Sure if the boat burns or sinks there is insurance but what if the charter company goes bankrupt? Also just look at what's happening in EU to USD right now. Just the sheer affordability of an ex charter, five year old boat suggests that a boat buyer is better off NOT to enter charter contracts and just be independent.
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