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Old 27-03-2012, 17:04   #1
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Moorings Cat Sales

I'm considering a used catamaran purchase, and one of the many avenues I'm investigating is a retired cat from the Moorings charter fleet. I'm curious about the typical (ballpark, of course) spread between asking and selling prices on such transactions. Would anyone have any experience or knowledge about that?
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Old 27-03-2012, 17:56   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielamartindm
I'm considering a used catamaran purchase, and one of the many avenues I'm investigating is a retired cat from the Moorings charter fleet. I'm curious about the typical (ballpark, of course) spread between asking and selling prices on such transactions. Would anyone have any experience or knowledge about that?
Not much.

A friend just bought one of six identical monos coming off sunsail charters. Each boat had the same price, some were better than others. He got his fifth choice for asking price. The price was reasonable, the boat well maintained with a new mainsail and an inflatable dinghy. He has done very little to the boat in six months of ownership except a fair amount of running rigging replacement.

I dont know how that translates to cats and moorings but they are desirable boats and people are generally getting what they pay for.
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Old 27-03-2012, 18:00   #3
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Re: Moorings cat sales

danielamartindm,

The Moorings sells a lot of retired cats. The problem is, you can only see the Listing price and never the Sold price. Only a boat broker will be able to give you the sold prices on boats. If you have a local broker you work with and are building a repore with then he will give you the sold prices.

My broker did this, so it really helped me make an offer that I would not have made without the sold price data.
It's amazing how far the listing price and sold prices are apart. In this buyers market the numbers are very far apart.
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Old 27-03-2012, 19:25   #4
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Re: Moorings cat sales

In my experience list to ask price on catamarans is within 15%. As for the Moorings, they could be a great deal, or it could be a boat sailed hard and poorly maintained. If it were me, I'd check all Moorings locations which are off the beaten path, and not high traffic locations. I've learned from some guys who have had their boats in charter with Moorings, that the smart ones pick these locations to put their boats.

The thinking being that boats in these locations will be lightly used.

It's just a thought
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Old 28-03-2012, 01:49   #5
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Re: Moorings cat sales

Depends on who actually owns the boat as the charter company doesn't often own them, therefore you're dealing with an individual seller and situations will vary significantly.
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Old 28-03-2012, 02:26   #6
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Re: Moorings cat sales

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tropic Cat View Post
In my experience list to ask price on catamarans is within 15%. As for the Moorings, they could be a great deal, or it could be a boat sailed hard and poorly maintained. If it were me, I'd check all Moorings locations which are off the beaten path, and not high traffic locations. I've learned from some guys who have had their boats in charter with Moorings, that the smart ones pick these locations to put their boats.

The thinking being that boats in these locations will be lightly used.

It's just a thought
It aint necessarily so....The "out of the way" places have less qualified maintainers and I've seen the dock boys thrashing the boats in between the dock and outer mooring fields. Personally, I would prefer an ex-Tortola fleet boat. Granted it will have been used more but the maintenance is significantly better (which isn't saying much!) than some of the other bases.

Tony
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Old 28-03-2012, 16:02   #7
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Re: Moorings cat sales

My experience is that Sunsail maintains their boats poorly and only fix what they have to. I have experienced many horror stories in my years of chartering even cats that were only 6 mths old! That is why they cover the maintenance on the purchased boats in their fleet as opposed to a company like Voyage where as an owner of a fleet boat you are responsible for your own maintenance and are billed accordingly. Even then when I purchased my cat I brought from an individual as opposed to a off charter boat. It is a buyers market and there are many great deals out there. Just low ball all your offers, you can always go up. Of course you will upset the broker but it's not their money. Good luck.
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Old 28-03-2012, 17:34   #8
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Re: Moorings cat sales

What caradow said.

You'll be shocked. I know of I believe it's a 2005 Leopard 38 in very good nick that fella paid something like... $140K!!! for
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Old 28-03-2012, 17:45   #9
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Re: Moorings cat sales

As already stated, a lot will depend on who is selling it.

Your best bet would probably be to buy a boat that hasn't gone through its phaseout yet. This way you could be involved in the phase out and see that everything that you feel should be corrected is corrected. I'm sure you could always have them take care of any issues found as well before taking possession of it.

In our year of ownership and 4 years of using moorings/Sunsail boats, I find the maintenance to be sufficient. Boats do get turned around, so items that are not critical and may take longer to fix between turn around times might get put on hold, but otherwise we've never found any major issues.
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Old 28-03-2012, 19:22   #10
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Re: Moorings cat sales

I made an offer for a Beneteau Oceanis 323 (monohull) last January. The asking price was $65,000, my offer was $47,500. The seller countered with $50,000 and I accepted. However, the survey revealed many items needing repair, some of which were rather major. From the Surveyor's list, it was quite evident the boat was not maintained very well.
Subsequent to the Surveyor's report I rejected (rescinded) my offer.

The name of the Moorings agent I used is Peter Wiersma and can be reached at his office in Ft Lauderdale at 877 714 3312.

This was just my experience and it may have been an isolated incident. I am now looking to buy a Catamaran and have considered a Moorings boat but frankly, I do not find the prices to be any better than what I can find using Yachtworld, Sailboatlistings.com or Catamarans.com.
Good luck, I hope you find a great boat at a great price. I agree with Caradow's post, low ball your offer, the seller can counter upwards but will never reduce your asking price.
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Old 28-03-2012, 19:34   #11
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Re: Moorings cat sales

Have you tried Catamarans for sale by owner?
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Old 28-03-2012, 20:43   #12
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Re: Moorings cat sales

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielamartindm View Post
I'm considering a used catamaran purchase, and one of the many avenues I'm investigating is a retired cat from the Moorings charter fleet. I'm curious about the typical (ballpark, of course) spread between asking and selling prices on such transactions. Would anyone have any experience or knowledge about that?
Hi danielamartindm,

I have just completed my purchase and phase out of a beautiful cat from the Moorings base in Marsh Harbor 3 months ago. I was looking at the cats from Moorings for over a year and my broker would send me the sold boat lists every few months so I could track what the boats actually sold for.

The boats that are selling are the ones in the best shape (the brokers know which ones they are), and they tend to sell for about 10% below asking price. The ones that are sitting on the market for more than a year are either way over priced or are in poor shape. There seems to be a lot of people looking for the right boat and when the nice ones come on the market they have a lot of offers right away.

A good broker will be able to find out what the owners need to get from the sale and if that is close to what you can handle and the boat is in good shape, act fast. Usually the owners are carrying a loan and are just looking to pay it off. In my experience most owe about 1/2 the original purchase price of the vessel.

The only way to really tell is to start making offers. We started low and negotiated from there. Most sellers will counter even if their broker says your offer is too low for them to consider. If you have a good broker they will make sure the seller sees it.

Feel free to ask me anything about the process of dealing with the Moorings.

Good luck.

CJ
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Old 28-03-2012, 20:56   #13
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Re: Moorings cat sales

Also keep in mind that as it sits waiting to be sold, it is likely still being chartered to cover costs and the owner is still paying off the mortgage. Kind of a double edge sword since it's getting more wear and tear, but every month that passes, the seller owes less on it and would likely accept less.
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Old 29-03-2012, 07:34   #14
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Re: Moorings cat sales

CJ - was your boat already phased out or still under contract?

Did you oversea phase out? Did you use a local surveyor or bring one over from Florida etc. (I've seen a lot of people on these forums suggest that).

Happy to discuss offline via PM, but others may be interested too.
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Old 29-03-2012, 07:38   #15
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Re: Moorings cat sales

M.i.Cats (the UK Fountaine Pajot Exclusive dealer) are pleased to announce that they will be attending the International Multihull Boat Show at Lorient.

We have free tickets to give away to the first 10 UK people who apply (2 tickets per give away).

Fountaine Pajot will be exhibiting an extensive range of sail and power catamarans:

Sail: Mahé 36 - Lipari 41 - Orana 44 - SANYA 57

Power: Summerland 40 - CUMBERLAND 46

Dates/Times: 18th to 22nd April 2012 from 10 am to 7pm

Location: Esplanade de la base sous-marine, Cité de la Voile Eric Tabarly Base de Keroman, 56100 Lorient, France

Hope to see you there…. Carl and Karen
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