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Old 29-03-2012, 07:44   #16
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Re: Moorings cat sales

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Originally Posted by tamif27 View Post
What caradow said.

You'll be shocked. I know of I believe it's a 2005 Leopard 38 in very good nick that fella paid something like... $140K!!! for
Robertson and Caine did not build a Leopard 38' in 2005. The first generation Leopard 38' was built from 1997 -2003

One 1999 Leopard 38' sold for $140k in NC a few years ago that had sustained a fire in the port aft stateroom.

fair winds,
Peter Wiersema - Leopard Brokerage
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Old 29-03-2012, 17:15   #17
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Re: Moorings cat sales

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Originally Posted by catabroker View Post
Robertson and Caine did not build a Leopard 38' in 2005. The first generation Leopard 38' was built from 1997 -2003

One 1999 Leopard 38' sold for $140k in NC a few years ago that had sustained a fire in the port aft stateroom.

fair winds,
Peter Wiersema - Leopard Brokerage
Yeah that seems too good to be true. I had a 2006 Leopard 43' on my website for a while which was listed for $300K USD. The owner was able to put it back in charter.
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Old 29-03-2012, 19:48   #18
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Re: Moorings cat sales

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Originally Posted by POH View Post
CJ - was your boat already phased out or still under contract?

Did you oversea phase out? Did you use a local surveyor or bring one over from Florida etc. (I've seen a lot of people on these forums suggest that).

Happy to discuss offline via PM, but others may be interested too.
Hi POH,

We went through the phase out of the boat while under contract and it was completed prior to close. It seems that even if the boat is due for the phase out the base will try to wait until the boat is under contract to purchase to start the work so your items from your survey can be addressed at the same time.

We used a very well respected surveyor from Florida, Jonathan Sands of Atlantic Marine Group, and flew him in for the job. He did a very thorough job, sounded the entire boat, moisture meter, infraRed Thermography, Engine & Trans Oil Analysis, Engine and Generator crankcase and cooling system pressure testing, Rigging inspections from aloft, so we felt very confident with his report. He has a lot of experience with Cats and has a very impressive CV as well as being a Naval Architect and having a Masters in Marine Engineering. Sorry if I am gushing a bit about the surveyor but I was very impressed with the job he did and was amazed at how little he charged.

In addition my broker flew over to be present at the haul out, survey and sea trial, at no cost us.

The boat was in good condition but we had a long list of things to repair. The base did a good job with the repairs but it did take a few months. The base in Marsh Harbor was hit by a hurricane last year damaging a lot of the boats so they had their hands full with repairs. We agreed on a time table and they stuck to it and we closed right on time.

Overall it was a very positive experience. Having the right broker on my side helped a lot.

If anyone is interested in any contact info I would be happy to provide it.

CJ
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Old 30-03-2012, 15:37   #19
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Re: Moorings cat sales

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Originally Posted by Tropic Cat View Post
Yeah that seems too good to be true. I had a 2006 Leopard 43' on my website for a while which was listed for $300K USD. The owner was able to put it back in charter.
I have been aboard the boat. If it's very old, it's in very good shape. She was an incredible deal. I was shocked when I heard the price.

You may believe, deals are out there.
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Old 06-03-2016, 00:51   #20
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Re: Moorings Cat Sales

This is actually very interesting thread. Would be nice to hear more personal experience regarding difference in listed and sold prices. Very useful information for these who only started thinking about purchasing a boat.
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Old 09-03-2016, 14:11   #21
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Re: Moorings Cat Sales

It's like buying a house or used car.... each situation is unique. There are too many different factors involved to apply any general rule of thumb.


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Old 09-03-2016, 14:41   #22
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Re: Moorings Cat Sales

The Moorings typically does't own the boats they charter, they are owned by individuals. Similarly the ex-charter boats listed for sale on the Moorings website aren't really being sold by the Moorings, but are being sold by the owners though a Moorings broker. (I had my charger boat listed with them for a while.) As with any boat sale, the owners discusses with the broker what other similar boats are listed as and selling for. It's up the the seller/owner to accept or reject any offer, not the Moorings.

Rather than think of a percentage off the asking, I would try to get a feel for what similar boats are actually selling for.

Ex-charter boats have seen a lot of use, sometimes from individuals who don't care about eh boats, but they are also in my experience fairly well maintained. When I've looked at boats of sale by owner, they are often much more neglected the ex-charter boats that has been regularly maintained by The Moorings.
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Old 09-03-2016, 20:57   #23
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Re: Moorings Cat Sales

It's understandable that there are no rules whatsoever. But also any real life cases would give an idea what to expect. Like someone mentioned above - boat was listed at 65K, seller accepted 50K offer. That's quite bit of discount. It's VERY interesting what kind of discounts one might expect when buying boat from charter company. Many guys mentioned here and in other threads that charter boats get used quite bit, so in many cases it would be not hard to find reasons to ask for discount. Say, listed price is 900K for 5 years old cat. It seems to be very expensive because brand new it was 1.2M. Catamaran for 1.2M is luxury toy. All and every luxury items don't hold value THAT well unless they made of gold or diamonds . So most likely sold prices somewhere in more realistic range. 10% less? 20% less?
Very rough idea of what to expect gives ability to search for right boats - the one that buyer can afford. In other words - let say someone set budget for cat at $600k (just for boat, not including fees, taxes, maintenance etc.) Of course, everyone trying to get best boat for his $. If theoretically he MIGHT get 20-25% off, he will look at boats priced at $750-800k which would be quite different boats comparing to ones listed at $600-650k.
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Old 09-03-2016, 23:10   #24
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Re: Moorings Cat Sales

Just closed on a 2010 Leopard 384 from Moorings in Tortola in January. Started process last July and just took it out for a spin for the first time in February. Asking price was originally 230,000. We paid 194,000 for the boat and 2000 for the very used dinghy / outboard at the dock. They pretty much fix everything on the boat that you ask for....i think there were about 40-50 different items that needed to be fixed and required three return visits from our surveyor. The longer it stays on the phase out dock the more likely parts go missing. They swap parts from boat to boat constantly there. You really have to look over everthing carefully. Deck brush, two snatch blocks, spinnaker halyard, two winch handles....this list of stuff that had to be put back on the boat goes on and on and on. The people there were very nice and accomodating, you just have to make sure you look carefully and ask for it as they will not likely notice the problems themselves. It is definitely a fun part time job going through this process...recognize it will consume a lot of your spare time navigating all the details. Looking forward to bringing her through the Panama Canal this summer as the boat slowly makes it's way home to Seattle.
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Old 09-03-2016, 23:20   #25
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Re: Moorings Cat Sales

Wow. Now that's long process! And I guess not very pleasant experience (missing/replaced parts). Do you think it might be worth not to get them fix everything but to get more discount instead and buy it right away? I would be very upset if at the end I would receive boat with missing/exchanged parts (unless it's something minor and easily replaceable).
I'm not familiar with smaller cats, but $194K seems to be reasonable for 6 years old boat?
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Old 10-03-2016, 04:52   #26
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Re: Moorings Cat Sales

June of 2015 I bought a 2009 Moorings 372 powercat (hull 6 of 10) that had been brought from Marsh Harbour to Ft Lauderdale to sell. This was unusual in that the boat was actually owned by the company, not an individual. They asked 250K and took myinitial offer of 232K. Jonathan Sands also did my survey and ID'd a few thousand dollars worth of stuff to be done. His assessed value was $255K. We renegotiated down to 230K. At the end of it all, I put another 25K into it, and feel it's in great shape now. In hindsight I likely could have paid maybe 10K less based on other sales and the info I see here, but I remain a happy buyer. My broker was Jeff Sorgen at Dennison, who was very helpful, really acted as my advocate, and helped out a lot in the process. Always have your own broker! True Love is now in charter at Southwest Florida Yachts in Cape Coral, and is doing well. Our family used to charter twice a year, but have now already been on her 7 times since June. That was my goal all along.


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Old 10-03-2016, 12:40   #27
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Re: Moorings Cat Sales

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In hindsight I likely could have paid maybe 10K less based on other sales and the info I see here
We're learning all our lifes. That's why I find this thread (along with many others) useful for many of us. Thanks for sharing your experience.
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Old 13-03-2016, 03:04   #28
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Re: Moorings cat sales

CJ - Who did you use for your Broker? Contact info?

We are looking seriously at a Moorings boat as well. Likely to pull the trigger in a month or so.

SJ
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Old 28-03-2016, 13:42   #29
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Re: Moorings Cat Sales

Hi SJ,

We used Gary Monnell from Whiteaker Yacht Sales. Very nice and competent guy. He made the trip for the survey for us as we couldn't travel at the time. He was very hands on through the purchase. Highly recommend him. gary@whiteakeryachtsales.com

Make sure you go with your own broker and not just use the one from the Moorings. You need someone on your side when dealing with them.

Cheers,

CJ
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Old 01-04-2016, 07:52   #30
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Re: Moorings Cat Sales

Hi POH,

Yes it was before it was phased out. They usually like to wait to do it until it is under offer so they can use your survey as a guide to repair. I used my own surveyed from the US and paid to fly him over. My broker monitored the phaseout and did a great job. No problems.
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