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View Poll Results: Do you prefer mono- or multihull sailboats for cruising?
Monohull 138 36.70%
Multihull 238 63.30%
Voters: 376. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 25-03-2008, 01:52   #376
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All mono hulls caught in the center of the storm were rolled and dismasted no matter what course of action the crew took. They all found it was impossible to keep these boats from catching seas abeam. Lives were lost on the monohulls. Three catamarans were in this group. All decided to lie ahull. All came through the storm with their masts intact and no injuries. All of these boats were sailable.
Rick505, firstly to address this point. You are completely wrong. I don't know where you came up with that story, but it is simply not true. I know the true story very well. And I know one of the families that actually survived that storm and in fact, sailed right through it. Right through the heart of it. The boat was one of several mono-hulls that also sailed right through. This family had a 50ft FC mono hul and I damn near bought it from them. They told me of their story and their story is what convinced me of buying an FC hull.
To the other part of your statement, several multihull vessels were lost. One was a tri in fact. Now I am not going to suggest that it being a multi was it's cause of end, but I would suggest that maybe it was because of it's age of design. More modern multi hull vessels maybe better at handling high sea's.

Now from an Admin perspective. This point is the end of your replies. Good debate is one thing. But you have far surpassed that. You may debate the topic, but please keep civilized. If you continue to make such remarks to other members, the next option for me will be rather more serious.
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Old 25-03-2008, 01:57   #377
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Hey MR Gmac why dont you stick four or five more pointy bits on the front and you will be able to come and visit us in a couple of hours..... : ) ....
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Old 25-03-2008, 02:13   #378
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Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler View Post
To the other part of your statement, several multihull vessels were lost. One was a tri in fact.
I'm very curious about this statement, since it contradicts every report I have read. According to the reports 3 multihulls issued maydays, and the crews were rescued from them. They were all cats. The only lives lost were one one mono which sank.

Are you saying that other lives were lost but not mentioned in these reports?

Or did the crews on these 'several" boats which were lost not issue maydays?

Both would seem very curious to me.

Any links to reports about all these missing multihulls?
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Old 25-03-2008, 02:15   #379
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Good golly what a kerfuffle the lads have going on. Danders are up and as they say 'stuff happens' on occasions like that.

I'm trying to organise my next build the biffo doesn't help so can I ask nicely if we call it a draw and move on? Call it selfish if you like but the longer I have to wade through a seemingly circular battle, the longer I have to have dry feet.

And before 'anyone' jumps the gun this 95% mono-sailor is trying to sort out his new Cat. No, nothing at all to do with seaworthiness as one thing I've learnt is a good boat that is well prepared and sailed by a good crew is about as safe as you'll get, albeit 1, 2 or 3 hulls. That storm was a freak so can't really be counted into the big scheme of things too highly.

Personally I've seen enough waves and they all look pretty similar so the faster I can get from point A to point B I'm happy. Simplistic theory maybe but that's me and what I want.
What type of cat are you thinking of building?
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Old 25-03-2008, 04:01   #380
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Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler View Post
Rick505, firstly to address this point. You are completely wrong. I don't know where you came up with that story, but it is simply not true. I know the true story very well. And I know one of the families that actually survived that storm and in fact, sailed right through it. Right through the heart of it. The boat was one of several mono-hulls that also sailed right through. This family had a 50ft FC mono hul and I damn near bought it from them. They told me of their story and their story is what convinced me of buying an FC hull. .

Alan

I won't pursue this, but the links where the story came from are posted in this thread
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Old 25-03-2008, 04:06   #381
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Please. Constructive debate.
I'm a committed cat man because:-
We'll be living aboard.
We won't be looking for trouble (racing on set days and set courses).
We will want to do some two week legs (so heavy weather capability is req'd)

IF: I was weekending from a somewhere near the sea residence a mono would be a a much cheaper great escape, club class racing would be fun, and I'd learn mono techniques. Perhaps then I'd be happy to take a mono to sea because I'd understand it well, taking a multi would be like a car driver taking a caravan on holiday. Not very different until - .
Captains are like drivers, they range in experience (regardless of how many miles), tolerance and raw ability. Sticking with what you know is safer. When I bought front wheel drive I learnt how not to crash it. I learnt not to go into corners too quickly. Same with the two different sailing styles, they are different. I still like hanging out the back end in a rear wheel drive, (not mooning) I don't like a front wheel drive that doesn't want to turn in so I balance tyre pressures fore and aft so it does. I've learnt to cope with, and balance the weaknesses of each design. Mono / Multi is a much bigger difference.
The QB Storm Multi that was 'almost' tipped sideways was presumeably unable to deploy or control an adequate drogue or sea-anchor. (Presumeably.) It's the understood solution for deep sea storms. I note that the US Coastguard don't like sea anchors but is this because of shallow water storms being steeper and more likely to break over the bows or just that coastal skippers don't take enough precautions with learning the system and preventing chafeing?
On the mono's those most at risk SEEMED to be those that couldn't control how the boat lay. Was this lack of drogues/sea anchors or what? Answers please.
There are so many solutions to storms. We all don't want to be there. We all want to be prepared. A few are good enough to share their experiences of the bad times and how they coped during them. How did they prepare and train before that? What equipment did they wish they had?
A good working radio is lesson one. See the rescue ships report.
A good mast head light is lesson two. See the rescue ships report.
Also - A Mayday should also be recognised as advisory, i.e. 'Things are pretty bad and if I don't call back in three hours then I'm presently at X,Y and heading Z.' Things won't seem so bad then. Somebody knows your deep in it and is watching out for you. Many of these boats called for 'Get me OFF' assistance when the boat itself didn't need it. Not that they were wrong, I wasn't there.
And, as I remember, the multi was sunk at the express insistence of the wife on board before she would be, and after she was, rescued.
Hope it's never you or me. To be lost at sea is the stuff of nightmares and scary films. There are not enough survivors to make it a rewarding experience.
So please:- Open and constructive thoughts, experience based opinion, discussion of how it should be done subject to this that and the other.
I read for experience, I want to sail for a different set of experiences, surviving a bad storm is not on that list.
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Old 25-03-2008, 05:25   #382
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A Mayday is used when in imminent danger of sinking. Other distress calls that may be suitable are PAN PAN, suggesting you are not happy with things but are not in immanent danger of sinking,
Robert
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Old 25-03-2008, 05:37   #383
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I had to look this up to check.
Pan Pan is. I believe, the current aero version of a Mayday.
Nautically I think you are still correct.
Wikipedia quotes:-
<LI class=toclevel-1>4 Distress, Urgency and Safety prowords (used for maritime and aeronautical VHF)<LI class=toclevel-1>5 See also <LI class=toclevel-1>6 References
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Old 25-03-2008, 06:00   #384
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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
I'm very curious about this statement, since it contradicts every report I have read. According to the reports 3 multihulls issued maydays, and the crews were rescued from them. They were all cats. The only lives lost were one one mono which sank.

Are you saying that other lives were lost but not mentioned in these reports?

Or did the crews on these 'several" boats which were lost not issue maydays?

Both would seem very curious to me.

Any links to reports about all these missing multihulls?
Correction, my mistake: TWO multihulls issued maydays. One other was mentioned, which did not. Which implies that there was only one other multihull there that day. I have been unable to find any reference to a single multihull that was lost that day, (Heart light was sunk at the owners request) let alone "several"

Could you provide links to any reports please Alan?
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Old 25-03-2008, 06:52   #385
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Eleven: That front wheel vs. rear wheel comparison is spot on!

That's what it's like changing boats from mono to multi. They basically both do the same thing, but in a different sort of way with a different feel and subtle advantages and disadvantages.

I love to drive sideways in a nice rear wheel drive car, haning it out around the corner, espeically on a dirt road or in snow where you can literally drive sideways the whole way. Fun! The sensibility in me though, prefers the front wheel drive car, because when I'm in the deep snow, I can still drive in up a hill, when the rear wheel drive car packs it in.

It's much the same with the mono/multi thing. Some things are fun about each, some are more practical about each. As with the mono/multi use factor, you pick the car based on your intended use. Same way with the mono/multi.

One negative about multis I'm seeing right now is heating. I'm pretty upset that I can't find a really good way to heat the boat. Diesel prices are insane. I would never pay that to heat a boat. Indoor propane heaters use O2 and produce moist heat. Wood is a point source, that has to somehow be spread around the boat. So, although I like multis for every other reason these days, one big item was one I overlooked!

I still have yet to get my @ss kicked around in my new multi yet, so I can't comment on stability vs the other 3 monos I've owned. Give me about a month, and I'll have plenty of data for everyone.

So far, I've only been out in 30-40MPH winds sailing downwind with a steep maybe 3-5ft sea. Nothing much, but I can say one thing - my cat didn't enjoy that stuff beam-on. Quite rolly. I had to do more of a run than a reach for comfort's sake. That's my one and only data point so far.


The point is, neither is better. They're just different is all.
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Old 25-03-2008, 07:14   #386
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I...Pan Pan is. I believe, the current aero version of a Mayday...
No, the definitions of Mayday and PanPan in aviation are similar to those in boating.
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Old 25-03-2008, 12:20   #387
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No, the definitions of Mayday and PanPan in aviation are similar to those in boating.
Exactly the same. A pilot calls a Mayday the same time a yacht does i.e. I'm in deep s**t, boat/aircraft broken and going down now or very damn shortly.

Aviation is dropping PanPan though. This is a recent development.
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Old 25-03-2008, 12:42   #388
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GMAC - that is the first I've heard of GA dropping "PAN PAN" - do you have a reference or a linK?
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Old 25-03-2008, 15:27   #389
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Sparohok,

I understand your point, but this thread's been going on for over five years, and I can't see where any of the participants have been convinced that they would switch "sides" for a future purchase.
Actually, we switched after weighing these arguments. Well, admittedly, not "these" arguments, because we hadn't yet discovered these forums before switching. But we did spend a lot of time reading less extensive debates on other forums and in books and formed our own opinion from them. And then decided to switch to a catamaran.

I guess we didn't do enough research because we switched 4.5 years ago and still missed this thread!

Mark
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Old 25-03-2008, 15:41   #390
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OK, that's good to hear!
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