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Old 09-02-2014, 03:07   #106
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Re: Mono vs Multi!

hi...listening in on thread. was in touch few years ago with Ozzy guy Dave Sheen...sailed the world in Catana with wife and 2 young kids. Runs a whale watch biz. in Tonga...switched to Schionning 16m 2 years ago. Company called whalediscoveries. Use the boat as live aboard. Dave a former windsurf champ and knows his stuff. May be worth dropping a line.

At the time ....i was looking for a boat,with 6 kids and limited experience....narrow options. Whether mono or cat...needed space,stability,comfort,safety,shallow draft (coral areas),easy swim/dive/fish. practical large galley. Easy to handle. Went for Cat. Had 2 years skipper assistance to learn. best way to do it if poss. Had great time and wife and kids n guests have loved the boat. Daves nutshell advice....make sure your cat is not a dog!

I totally agree on aesthetics...just love looking at beautiful monos lines and gloss and finish. maybe one day when just me and wife and ahead more sail experience.
ALSO love the looks of the fast cats....opposite end of spectrum..carbon fibre,space ships. Gunboat a show stopper. Whatever dings your bell!

Regards what folk think..life is too short. If I'm on the water,I'm happy! Family happy too....learning to love the ocean..big bonus.
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:38   #107
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Re: Mono vs Multi!

Multihulls are just simply progress. Everyone used to hunt with black powder rifles. Flew in commercial airplanes with propellers. Were unable to walk further than about ten feet from a dial telephone because of the two cords involved.

I like the looks of classic monohulls too. If I were wealthy enough to be able to afford to collect big expensive boats as a hobby, I would probably have one or two in the collection.

But if we can only have one cruising sailboat, I see a lot of pros for the multihulls, very few cons. Not the same story for single hulls.

Just remind yourself of the basics. Boats are supposed to float. This means that they need to weigh less than the amount of water they displace. If they don't, they're really not boats. They're really more like surfaced submarines. It's a temporary condition.
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:56   #108
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Re: Mono vs Multi!

When you go back to the first couple of posts there were a few low volume Ozzie boats mentioned so I am assuming the OP is from Oz. You will most likely never encounter a Prescott on the US east coast or Carib and Schionnings are almost as rare. However there are posters here like Scarlet who do live in the US (St. Louis was it?) and this debate swings dramatically in the multis favor because of the shallow draft. While it is doubtful Miss Scarlet will be motoring her new vessel down the Mississippi where that skinny draft can be helpful there is a real possibility that she will be in the ICW a few times. And that shallow draft is great for the Florida keys and the Carb too. A 45' mono will have a 6' draft more or less (or take about a foot off for shoal draft) while a 45' cat will usually be under 4'.
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Old 09-02-2014, 08:24   #109
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Re: Mono vs Multi!

I think you make some good points however as cool and as nice as a cat is there are some drawbacks. To begin with they are expensive and maintenance is higher. As more and more cats are sold the cost in marinas will rise as marinas are not planned for cats. Most cruisers need a cat of at least lower 40's if they are going to get all their cruising gear onboard and even then many cats are overloaded to the point that they have become motor sailors in all but heavier winds. There is no question that cats have become the favorite of less than enthusiastic females for a cruising boat and that's great because its allowing many guys to go sailing when left to a mono hull it may not have happened. Because of the popularity of cats and the desire to have a patio door and one level space from the cockpit to the main saloon the mono hull designers and builders are starting to produce huge beamed mono hulls that provide much more opulent spaces and staterooms that would only be available on the largest cats and I expect we will see these mono hulls becoming even bigger and cheaper than similar sized cats. So yes for sure things are changing in the sailing market place and thats good for all sailors. There will be a good market for cats for some time due to the demographics in play but there are also world cruisers that would never give up their mono hulls as they sail off the beaten path. Many of the new cruisers trying to enter the market simply do not have the budget for a decent cat and love them or not they will be sailing mono's.
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Old 09-02-2014, 08:29   #110
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pirate Re: Mono vs Multi!

To much touchiness and defensive crap creeping into a question about someone's personal conundrum..
As someone who regularly sails and has owned both.. admittedly not in the $$$'s scale of most of the folks on here ownership wise.. each have their plus and minus factors for sailing and living aboard..
But both have one big thing in common.. they can be run aground, flipped, rolled, sunk, dismasted in the hands of a Dork..
The decision should be based on the waters you are going to sail.. the amount of family/people you'll have on board full time.. whether the Missus is happy with tippy tippy life at 10+ degrees or prefers life on the level.. once you've that sorted.. you can work on the 'P^>*s Factor'..
I know women who would not be seen dead on a cat.. and those who cringe at mono's
Make your judgements based on your needs and tolerances.. not on bigoted comments from either camp..
I love em both...
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Old 09-02-2014, 09:28   #111
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Re: Mono vs Multi!

IMO daggerboards do not equal performance. There are plenty of other factors to consider sail area to displacement (fully loaded) comes to mind. In terms of pointing, daggerboards will definitely help in most cases. I am sure there are some old school multis with dagger boards that can't point worth a darn. an old foalboat of mine reminds me of that

One thing for sure, "performance" additions generally equal more responsibility
Higher sail area to displacement - make sure you reef early
Daggerboards - make sure you use them, up when in the shallows, exercise them regularly to prevent fouling
cost: more all around

daggerboard models:
gunboat
Catana
Main Cat
MC2

Hybrid
Chris White's atlantic models

No dagger boards
lagoon
Leopard
FP
Nautitech
Dean
Prout
Maverick (only the one boat as far as I can tell)
Gemini

If you are really looking for performance cruising, look to a converted trimaran, but then in most cases you sacrifice space (except with a Neel)
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Old 09-02-2014, 09:53   #112
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Re: Mono vs Multi!

You forgot Outremer.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:24   #113
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Re: Mono vs Multi!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand crab View Post
You forgot Outremer.
The OP asked about Schionning 1030/Prescott Whitehaven, both of which are not on the list, along with a whole host of other cats.

There are lots of variables that determine any sailboats performance and comfort. The centerboard/daggerboard verses keel discussion may seem to get heated to some but a quick scan of SA threads will show centerboard verses daggerboard verses foil get really heated.

As others have posted the sail area/displacement or wetted area ratio is often a better factor to predict performance than if a boat has a keel or daggerboard.

As to the OP's question I have not sailed a Schionning, but have seen them sail faster than lots of other catamarans.
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Old 09-02-2014, 12:52   #114
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Re: Mono vs Multi!

A friend has just bought a Schionning Wilderness 1100. It's a good looking roomy boat. Haven't been for a sail yet, hopefully soon.
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Old 09-02-2014, 13:10   #115
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Re: Mono vs Multi!

Tomfl, the post before mine by Sailing Fast listed dagger board cats and he forgot to list Outremer.
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Old 09-02-2014, 13:34   #116
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pirate Re: Mono vs Multi!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
A friend has just bought a Schionning Wilderness 1100. It's a good looking roomy boat. Haven't been for a sail yet, hopefully soon.
Ahhh.. a DIY kit cat... a good low budget cat..
Wilderness 1100 catamaran: Speedy live-aboard
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Old 09-02-2014, 15:11   #117
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Re: Mono vs Multi!

So the other part of the equation is space. Schionning Wilderness are great boats but we could not live in a Wilderness 1100. Maybe a 1320 if it was set out right. Getting better in a 1480, but this is a big boat. However, low 40s production boat has tons of space. Performance boats not only have thin hulls but living areas are swept back so the cockpits suffer in space.

For us it seems the basic rule is that an average production boat 40-45 will give great livability but you need to go to 50 with a performance boat, with all of the contingent issues that arise.
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Old 09-02-2014, 15:21   #118
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Re: Mono vs Multi!

I should also mention dolphin as a daggerboard

Jeantot as a non dagger board along with countless others

I do like the Catanas and you an find some cheaper older models. Definitely a sailor's cat. I do know several owners who have trouble with leaking front windows. The Catana's use some really wide caulking around the windows that is subject to "shrinkage" causing leaks.

IMO I don't know that I would want the hassle or the smaller hull configuration to accommodate the daggerboard trunk.

That wilderness looks pretty cool.
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Old 09-02-2014, 15:25   #119
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Re: Mono vs Multi!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcatcruisers View Post
hi...listening in on thread. was in touch few years ago with Ozzy guy Dave Sheen...sailed the world in Catana with wife and 2 young kids. Runs a whale watch biz. in Tonga...switched to Schionning 16m 2 years ago. Company called whalediscoveries. Use the boat as live aboard. Dave a former windsurf champ and knows his stuff. May be worth dropping a line.

At the time ....i was looking for a boat,with 6 kids and limited experience....narrow options. Whether mono or cat...needed space,stability,comfort,safety,shallow draft (coral areas),easy swim/dive/fish. practical large galley. Easy to handle. Went for Cat. Had 2 years skipper assistance to learn. best way to do it if poss. Had great time and wife and kids n guests have loved the boat. Daves nutshell advice....make sure your cat is not a dog!

I totally agree on aesthetics...just love looking at beautiful monos lines and gloss and finish. maybe one day when just me and wife and ahead more sail experience.
ALSO love the looks of the fast cats....opposite end of spectrum..carbon fibre,space ships. Gunboat a show stopper. Whatever dings your bell!

Regards what folk think..life is too short. If I'm on the water,I'm happy! Family happy too....learning to love the ocean..big bonus.
I was impressed by your excellent experience with the Cape Cat and suggest that a Schonning 16m is possibly quite different from your vessel.
You indicated the simple answer to upwind performance is to motor and I think this is the answer for many of us. Don't sweat that disadvantage.

If you are living aboard fulltime you need to be comfortable.
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Old 09-02-2014, 15:29   #120
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Re: Mono vs Multi!

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Originally Posted by cwjohm View Post
So the other part of the equation is space. Schionning Wilderness are great boats but we could not live in a Wilderness 1100.

For us it seems the basic rule is that an average production boat 40-45 will give great livability but you need to go to 50 with a performance boat, with all of the contingent issues that arise.
I agree on the sizing. Even being on a 50 outremer ( or there abouts) it felt comparable to a 42 ish foot mid range. I was probably smaller than the FP Helia (44), and I couldn't say what lagoon.... Maybe a 42?

I can't imaging maintenance on a 50 footer. Granted it wouldn't be more systems, just bigger rigging, more $ tohaul, more bottom paint, oil etc. might be ok given all those systems have more access space around them.
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