Modernizing a Prout Elite 37ft

[SaltyMonkey]

Thats not a dog; thats a hippoplottymouth!

Mad Mad i say

[Buzzman]

In the original poet Gray's context, to be far form the madding crowd was to be dead and buried in the church yard....

Salty you gotta death wish or something..??

[SaltyMonkey]

Originally Posted by Buzzman

In the original poet Gray's context, to be far form the madding crowd was to be dead and buried in the church yard....

Salty you gotta death wish or something..??

Knope! Just a earthquake like monday for saltymonkey thats me!

Nicey nice you pickked up on that poetry sh**t, Buzzy boy.

[Buzzman]

Not just a pretty face..!!

Oh! Hang on a minute.....

[atoll]

dontcha just love cheap crappy Chinese tools and the companies that sell them!

I bought a set of !/2" spindle router bits to machine 3x 12 ft x7"x1"1/4" planks of iroko into about 100 ft of 2x1" moulded rubrail capping.

first rebate router bit burnt out after about 18 ft!,fortunately I had a spare quality bit on a 1/4" spindle so carried on with that,doing 2 passes to get the 1/2" rebate depth, with no visible wear on the replacement quality rebate bit.

next,using the cheap Chinese bits we machined 4 radius's on the inner rebate and outer faces of the 2x1 rails to a depth of about 1/4 inch.

the radius bits cut,with no problems all the timber,except that the guide bearings burnt out about every 30 ft.
fortunately there were enough spare bearings on the other bits in the set to get the job done..................

Monday morning,having kept the recipt for the set of bits, I took the now pretty much useless set of bits back to the K-mart type chain store where I bought them....

where they happily refunded me for the set............

who needs tool hire companies when you can buy a tool on Friday,use it untill destruction on the weekend,and take it back Monday and get your money back!

[SaltyMonkey]

Indeed, Atoll, you are always outdoing your last! A creative fellow, you find the smartest route. We all learn from this experience -- tid bits or knot.

I am intrigued by cheap drills. I always buy them intending them to break because I know I am not a smart monkey, or a dog, or a giraffe. I break my best bits too! Why wait?

Oh, what joy, to watch you craft this great water-pusher. What will come next?

We will ponder and dream.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by atoll

dontcha just love cheap crappy Chinese tools and the companies that sell them!

I bought a set of !/2" spindle router bits to machine 3x 12 ft x7"x1"1/4" planks of iroko into about 100 ft of 2x1" moulded rubrail capping.

first rebate router bit burnt out after about 18 ft!,fortunately I had a spare quality bit on a 1/4" spindle so carried on with that,doing 2 passes to get the 1/2" rebate depth, with no visible wear on the replacement quality rebate bit.

next,using the cheap Chinese bits we machined 4 radius's on the inner rebate and outer faces of the 2x1 rails to a depth of about 1/4 inch.

the radius bits cut,with no problems all the timber,except that the guide bearings burnt out about every 30 ft.
fortunately there were enough spare bearings on the other bits in the set to get the job done..................

Monday morning,having kept the recipt for the set of bits, I took the now pretty much useless set of bits back to the K-mart type chain store where I bought them....

where they happily refunded me for the set............

who needs tool hire companies when you can buy a tool on Friday,use it untill destruction on the weekend,and take it back Monday and get your money back!

I'm fascinated by the differences in trade terminology between Brit & Ami English. Spindle=shaft. Rebate=Rabbet. Here, in the marine trade, no pro would call it 1 1/4", but instead 5/4". Same problems, same trade, different words. I'm sure I'd stump the local hardware guy if I showed up there. Don't forget to lube those cheap bearings!

[Buzzman]

Sam lingo differences in Oz. Here we refer to 4 X 2, rather than 2 X 4 (even though ours are now 100 X 50, they're still *called* 4 X 2's.

But 1-1/4" is forever 32mm, and 1-1/2" is 38mm.

Apparently it was too hard to completely decimalise the industry, so instead of 5mm, 10mm, 15mm, 20mm, 25mm and so on, we're still stuck with the metric equivalents of the old Imperial measures.

And although 8' X 4' ply sheets *used* to be 2440 X 1220, they have long since rationalised them to 2400 X 1200.

Although occasionally we get sheet sizes from mills in developing countries who are presumably using the old Imperial-measure rolling mills, and sheets are again 2440 X 1220.

So the old 18" spacing centre-to-centre between framing studs is still that, we just call it 450mm.

And as the standard 8' ceiling height is now 2400, you'd think it would make sense to run board or Gyprock (sheet rock for you Seppos) vertically, the stud spacing doesn't make this easy.

So although it would make more sense to use thicker studs at 600mm centres, so sheets, run vertically would cross three studs, with overlap to join at both edges, this is clearly too hard for the construction industry to cope with.

And let's not get off onto thread sizes, pitch and so on, or we could start WWIII....

[atoll]

Originally Posted by minaret

I'm fascinated by the differences in trade terminology between Brit & Ami English. Spindle=shaft. Rebate=Rabbet. Here, in the marine trade, no pro would call it 1 1/4", but instead 5/4". Same problems, same trade, different words. I'm sure I'd stump the local hardware guy if I showed up there. Don't forget to lube those cheap bearings!

ha ha!
RE: terminology,it gets even worse ,as you might know the UK went Metric and started using decimals from 1970 onwards...............

problem is since then we now have to work in both metric AND imperial measurements,as materials coming from Europe are all sold in metric sizes,and generally uk products as well,including tools etc

that is except wood sizes,screw sizes,pipe sizes that are generally still imperial.
ply wood is still sold in 8x4' sheets,but in metric thicknesses

bolts , aluminium,stainless steel and rigging wire sizes,quantities etc are generally all metric.

plans are generally all metric (auto cad drawings},as is almost everything built after 1970........

houses,boats etc pre 1970 generally are imperial,post 1970 metric.

see where I am going with this...........

you would definitely get some strange looks in the hardware store ,but probably not in a marine chandlers where they are used to people trying to fit 10mm into a 3/8 slot or vice versa

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Buzzman

Sam lingo differences in Oz. Here we refer to 4 X 2, rather than 2 X 4 (even though ours are now 100 X 50, they're still *called* 4 X 2's.

But 1-1/4" is forever 32mm, and 1-1/2" is 38mm.

Apparently it was too hard to completely decimalise the industry, so instead of 5mm, 10mm, 15mm, 20mm, 25mm and so on, we're still stuck with the metric equivalents of the old Imperial measures.

And although 8' X 4' ply sheets *used* to be 2440 X 1220, they have long since rationalised them to 2400 X 1200.

Although occasionally we get sheet sizes from mills in developing countries who are presumably using the old Imperial-measure rolling mills, and sheets are again 2440 X 1220.

So the old 18" spacing centre-to-centre between framing studs is still that, we just call it 450mm.

And as the standard 8' ceiling height is now 2400, you'd think it would make sense to run board or Gyprock (sheet rock for you Seppos) vertically, the stud spacing doesn't make this easy.

So although it would make more sense to use thicker studs at 600mm centres, so sheets, run vertically would cross three studs, with overlap to join at both edges, this is clearly too hard for the construction industry to cope with.

And let's not get off onto thread sizes, pitch and so on, or we could start WWIII....

+2

I found Australia to be way much better than the uk,where they seem to have adopted the metric system completely.

here in the uk we still remember the war

[Buzzman]

Yeah, Oz is not too bad, our Federal system made it easier to get agreement so the States all adopted Metric in the early seventies, just as I was going through High School, so we started in Imperial and finished with metric, and it was similar in my early work years in the building trade - tape measures had both Imperial and metric measures, for example.

What I've always found curious is that we didn't completely decimalise, which Metric is perfect for.

For example, a 6mm bolt is designed to replace a 1/4" bolt, 10mm a 3/8" 20mm, 3/4" and so on.

But instead of getting 5mm ply, we got 6mm, and instead of 10mm ply we got 12mm, as these were the Imperial thicknesses 1/4" and 1/2".

Eventually, things settled down, so we can now get 4mm, 5mm, 6mm, 9mm and 12mm - but still not 10mm as often.

And the timber sizings and spacings are all 'Metricalised' versions of older Imperial measures, as I mentioned previously.

Even though hardware stores officially stock 100 X 50, we order "4 X 2" and refer to it as 4 X 2 on site..

No-one's ever been threatened with "being brained by a lump of 100 X 50", but many a lackadaisical labourer has been threatened with "being belted over the back of the head with a lump of four-be-two".

Old habits die hard.

But trying to get my head around the different Whitworth fittings and wrenches so I could work on the old Fergie tractor on the farm, now that was a PITA.

I'm used to Japanese cars and bikes and their rigidly Metric fastenings, so have mostly stuck with them myself. But occasionally you turn up a gem at the local builder's merchants, like a box of 100, 6-5/8" hex head coach screws that required a 1/2" socket to turn them in.

They'd probably been at the back of the shelf since the seventies, but still did the job on the new shed...

I also own a couple of British Seagull outboards - for my sins - and they have all sorts of esoteric fittings. Basically I keep trying until I find *something* that fits the appropriate nut, and then still find (from the owner's forum) that there is a 'special spanner' for that particular nut that removes the difficult attack angle or whatever.

Specialist knowledge is key....

Sorry for the thread drift....back to atoll's refurb...

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Buzzman

Sam lingo differences in Oz. Here we refer to 4 X 2, rather than 2 X 4 (even though ours are now 100 X 50, they're still *called* 4 X 2's.

But 1-1/4" is forever 32mm, and 1-1/2" is 38mm.

Apparently it was too hard to completely decimalise the industry, so instead of 5mm, 10mm, 15mm, 20mm, 25mm and so on, we're still stuck with the metric equivalents of the old Imperial measures.

And although 8' X 4' ply sheets *used* to be 2440 X 1220, they have long since rationalised them to 2400 X 1200.

Although occasionally we get sheet sizes from mills in developing countries who are presumably using the old Imperial-measure rolling mills, and sheets are again 2440 X 1220.

So the old 18" spacing centre-to-centre between framing studs is still that, we just call it 450mm.

And as the standard 8' ceiling height is now 2400, you'd think it would make sense to run board or Gyprock (sheet rock for you Seppos) vertically, the stud spacing doesn't make this easy.

So although it would make more sense to use thicker studs at 600mm centres, so sheets, run vertically would cross three studs, with overlap to join at both edges, this is clearly too hard for the construction industry to cope with.

And let's not get off onto thread sizes, pitch and so on, or we could start WWIII....

18"on center?

Canada went metric back in the late '70's. It's still a 2x4, and always has been 16" on center. I can't see how you make a 4x8 sheet work on an 18" on center stud?

Sorry for the derail... fascinating thread I haven't followed until now.

[Buzzman]

avb3 - sorry, my original post wasn't clear enough. Obviously, you can't get a good spacing on 18" (450mm) stud centres with 2400 X 1200 sheets sizes.

But 450mm is the maximum spacing for 100 X 50 studs (legal framing Code) so the studs need to be larger if you go to 600mm centres to facilitate easier sheeting.

I can't recall the correct stud size but imagine its 125 X 50 (or even 125 X 75) neither of which is a common size, and thus needs to be specially ordered and so is MUCH more expensive than the standard size 10 X 50 in radiata pine or douglas fir.

Of course, I live in an area where east coast eucalypts are plentiful, but still not as cheap as pine, and so all the older timber-framed houses, like mine, are in 100 X 50 eucalypt sp. - ie: hardwood, and once aged, VERY hard-wood.

Nails ok when still fresh, but once aged and dried out it's like iron. Needs a *sharp* drill, and soap lube usually, to pre-drill for nailing into old timbers.

Cutting it takes the edge of the saw pretty damn quick.

But the termites don't like it as much as they do fir or pine, so it tends to last longer.

One of the east coast hwd sp, turpentine, is used for bridge and wharf pilings and is rated for 50 years immersed in a marine environment.

Heavy as buggery though, so no good for boat frames....and it twists....

Spotted gum is about the heaviest we use, if we can find any.....

Again, apologies for the thread drift...

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Buzzman

avb3 - sorry, my original post wasn't clear enough. Obviously, you can't get a good spacing on 18" (450mm) stud centres with 2400 X 1200 sheets sizes.

But 450mm is the maximum spacing for 100 X 50 studs (legal framing Code) so the studs need to be larger if you go to 600mm centres to facilitate easier sheeting.

I can't recall the correct stud size but imagine its 125 X 50 (or even 125 X 75) neither of which is a common size, and thus needs to be specially ordered and so is MUCH more expensive than the standard size 10 X 50 in radiata pine or douglas fir.

Of course, I live in an area where east coast eucalypts are plentiful, but still not as cheap as pine, and so all the older timber-framed houses, like mine, are in 100 X 50 eucalypt sp. - ie: hardwood, and once aged, VERY hard-wood.

Nails ok when still fresh, but once aged and dried out it's like iron. Needs a *sharp* drill, and soap lube usually, to pre-drill for nailing into old timbers.

Cutting it takes the edge of the saw pretty damn quick.

But the termites don't like it as much as they do fir or pine, so it tends to last longer.

One of the east coast hwd sp, turpentine, is used for bridge and wharf pilings and is rated for 50 years immersed in a marine environment.

Heavy as buggery though, so no good for boat frames
....and it twists....

Spotted gum is about the heaviest we use, if we can find any.....

Again, apologies for the thread drift...

DO not apologise for the thread drift. During it, atoll will have fabricated something else and done repairs to 60 other boats in the yard

I believe he has a day off booked for February 12th 2016.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by weavis

DO not apologise for the thread drift. During it, atoll will have fabricated something else and done repairs to 60 other boats in the yard

I believe he has a day off booked for February 12th 2016.

even better than that ,I get to go to hungary on "holiday" for 2 weeks in October to visit my mother.....she has sent me a shopping list of stuff to bring out with me,and is already hinting about "repairs" to the house--------plus the 8 cubic meters of logs that need splitting for winter fuel

meantime back here ,toe rails and fore stay chainplate are onboard and ready to be fitted,wife is on holiday till Friday to help.

I just need it to stop raining and the tides to be right at the same time so I can pre drill through the hull/deck join from the dinghy without getting electrocuted

sorry no photos,batteries were flat again