Modernising a Horstman Trimaran

[thomwessels]

To further clarify my 'obsession' with Horstman trimarans...Once I decided on a tri I looked at many styles and came to the conclusion that Norm's keel was counter to the idea of shallow draft and I was also uncomfortable using the pods for fuel or water as some do. I like Ed's dagger boards as they can be adjusted and raised, keeping draft good for 'thin water'. Horstmans are unique among cruising tris in that one can stroll fore and aft without crawling through a mast bulkhead. No other tri I know of allows this nicety. Also, each space is only one or two steps up or down from the next (except for ama access from the outside decks which other boats do not even have).
TriStars are derided for looking like a floating Sherman tank but even that is part of Ed's well thought out design. His flat deck is easy to walk around and is stronger than those with step ups which add weight and are potential leakers. Ed 'bowed' to customer pressure sometime in the 80's to raise his bows (earlier models were more dipped). I always thought this was an error because the earlier boats let air slip across smoothly.
The fine entry of the bows in the water quickly fattens out so as the bow pushes down at speed or in heavy seas, there is ever increasing buoyancy to counter. No wave piercing bows here! Admittedly, these are cruising tris. I always say they are slow for a tri...but fast for a boat...

[dcruz99801]

It sounds like I need to talk to either Doc50 or preferably CapnBrown about kickup rudders.
I had a response from Horstman indicating there was none for the TriStar45, but no real info. Can either of you contact me at dcruz99801 AT hotmail.com with photo or study plan graphic of the kickup on the TriStar38?

[CapnBrown]

I can send the dimensions and create a drawing but I still haven't settled on what I want as a solution to keeping it down. The previous blade had a stainless plate embedded in the layup that protruded from the blade along the upper aft edge with an eye cut in it. That was pinned with a stainless rod that extended up to a point you could push on it to force the rudder down. This blade is buoyant and so it comes up on its own. Previous owner tied the rod to other hardware which is a poor solution. I don't know if this was Ed's design or if he added weight to the designed rudder to cause to want to stay down or used some other method. We are toying with the idea of using wood dowels punched cross wise through the slot housing, then blade and out the other side of the housing. It would be effective until it gets kicked up somewhere you can't take the time to push it back down to match the holes up to clear the old dowel and insert the new one. I'd much rather have a line connected to something that could be tripped and reset under stressed conditions. I'd love to see what Ed's design calls for, if it's not what I have.

While on the rudder topic I'm not a big fan of hydraulic steering. However I don't see a straight forward way of running cable steering without adverse changes to the stern cabin or sealing the cable routes through the transom. Historically my boats with cable had a through hull rudder post. So I don't know if it's worth messing with for the boats design.

[thomwessels]

I met a fellow 3 years ago who had just launched his 38' TriStar. He had a kickup rudder that he was tweaking, as it tended to blow the 'fuse' too easily. I am not convinced that a kickup rudder is a good idea. Never had a problem with moving around in thin water.

[thomwessels]

CaptBrown, I'm also not a fan of hydraulic steering. My present boat already had it, so I left it in. I had no problem snaking steering cables through in my last boat, a 41' Tristar. My present boat has no real feel for heavy seas so I may eventually go back to cable. I have had cable steering fail in the middle of the Pacific in a dead calm while adjusting my compass... so I realize there is no perfect system!
Thom
CROSSROADS
39' TriStar

[rberrey]

Ed has a kickup rudder design at least for the 31' , just call him . Rick

[thomwessels]

I had the 31' 'Small Tri' being hoisted over the house in Ed's book.

nb: Ed died I would guess about 15 years ago. His company still sells plans and may offer engineering support still.

Can't talk directly to him unfortunately. He had some really good ideas.

I've had three of his designs because I believe in his ideas.

Thom

[Cavalier MK2]

Doc, Ed was still very much alive when I talked to him a couple of years ago and this year other members talked to him. Kind of the crusty, tough old guy. He has a hanger in Montana and is much more interested in flying things these days but is still willing to talk boats.

[thomwessels]

Wow, Cavalier! about 8 years ago I met a sailmaker from San Diego who 'claimed he knew' Ed. He told me Ed had died 8 years prior to that., so I've been going on that assumption ever since. Thanks! I guess a version of Mark Twain's comment is appropriate here...something to the effect that reports of his death were somewhat premature...
Thom
CROSSROADS
TriStar 39'

[Cavalier MK2]

He was probably confusing him with Norm Cross. Ruby Jean here and RBerry have both bought plans recently. RubyJean tried to build one of the 26' folders but had problems with the lines which were expanded from a 23. Important to loft things when building....I'm surprised more people aren't building Ed's cats with the updated looks. They have the room and features cruisers want and the plans are a bargain.

[thomwessels]

Never considered that he may have meant Norm. I knew Norm and that he had died but just took it at face value. Note to self...research all info that comes to me!
I'm always surprised that Ed's designs are not as popular. He just got so much right. I've loved my boat(s). They sail well and are strong and comfortable. They are better thought out than all others as far as I'm concerned. (Granted, I get that every boat is a compromise).

[Sand crab]

Ed's 82 now and still with us.
Ed Horstman Designs

[thomwessels]

So glad to find this out! Full disclosure...Ed got really mad at me years ago after I kept calling and asking a million questions of him without buying complete plans. He felt I was wasting his time (which I guess I was...)
I bought used TriStars and completely refit them.

Despite our 'rift', I have always contended that Horstmans are still the best design out there for cruising trimarans.

Thom
Small Tri, 31' (in Ed's book, being craned over a house. Built by Bob Small)
Triumph, 41' (formerly 'Marymonte', built by Monte Kimball, Port Orchard, WA)
Crossroads, 39' (Built by Bob Braggins, Seattle, WA. 'Puffin' in Ed's book)

[CapnBrown]

Doc50, I'm still working on getting my TriStar 39 back into action. Probably 6 months to being in sailing order. I have not sailed her with the dagger boards yet as the board she had was in poor condition. She has a minikeel so I was able to sail her bringing her back. As a comparison how well does yours point with a typical monohull with the boards down? Just pointing up an upwind leg against a comparable length monohull do the monohulls point 4 or 5 degrees higher or 10 to 15 or can you basically keep up with them or what? I've read comments saying our boat is terrible at it but wondered if it wasn't from people being too lazy to work both the boards etc. I understand that the faster you go, the more you have to fall off as well because you're making your own wind so maybe I should say something like "...in about 15kts of wind..." What is your experience in your current TriStar?

[natew]

CapnBrown,

We have a 38' Tristar and we can point 30 degrees off wind in 15 knott winds and do about 4 knotts, maybe 5. However, we do not have daggerboards. I am not sure if we maybe have a deeper keel or other design modifications to make up for that fact as I do not have a copy of the original plans to compare with. Any closer than 30 degrees and we really struggle to get anywhere, and in stronger winds it is way more apparent.