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Old 02-10-2006, 19:26   #91
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Ferrari vs chevy cavalier

A Ferrari cost more to maintain than a Chevy cavalier, but I would rather have the Ferrari.

As a cat owner and in the old days a leaner owner, I think the trade off of the additional expense of cat maintance is worth the trade for increase in speed, space, and over all personal comfort.

But that is just me!
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Old 02-10-2006, 19:36   #92
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I agree completely. I deliberately left out the benefits comparison, as it was not part of the question, An arguement could certainly be made for factoring in the benefits of a cat, but that is a whole other subject.
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Old 02-10-2006, 22:14   #93
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You said it, Kai Nui, a 35' cat has a lot more space than a 35' mono. In fact a 35' cat has more of everything, including performance than most 35' mono's, so really comparing a cat with a mono of the same length isn't a true comparison. A 40' cat would have similar space and performance to a 50' mono, so the maintainance costs should probably not be compared on a foot for foot basis.
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Old 02-10-2006, 23:01   #94
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so if a cat that is a nice cruiser like a perry 43 costs AUD$520,000,and a privelidge 435 cost AUD $790,000 second hand, what sort of mono would be a comparison. Most of the 12mth old monos with a flash fitout I looked at on boatpoint[i'll admit i'm no expert on monos] with performance names like elliot 50 and farr semed to be the same sort of money.

I did see pages of 50 to 60 foot. monos that were over AUD $1,000,000. So if a 40 foot cat is equal to a 50ft mono it seems it could be similar, but if a 40ft cat is equal to a 55ft mono, well............

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Old 03-10-2006, 04:06   #95
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following this thread with avid interest, I am wondering about one point...
was it determined that it actually DID cost more to bottom-paint a cat? There is a lot of wet surfaces on a mono.

Also, at least in some cases, some cats can be rolled up on the beach to be scraped and painted. I saw a photo somewhere of a small cruising catamaran sitting on four logs rolled up on a beach for work....I wish I could find the photo again. anyhow Monos have to be hauled, and in some places I gather the shipyards wont let you put your own paint on. Have to hire their labor at eleventy gazillion pesos an hour... on their timetable, etc.
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Old 03-10-2006, 05:28   #96
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Canibil you are absolutly correct, in Australia lots of work gets done on Multis between tides. If you look at my pics at the cat i'm currently building you'll see full length keel, that not only protect the tanks and props,but also provide a platform for drying out on saving many hundreds of dollars every year in hard stand fees.

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Old 03-10-2006, 05:45   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Nui
The question still remains, is it more or less expensive to maintain a cat than a mono? Haul outs: more expensive
Engines: more expensive
Basic systems: equal
Paint: more expensive
Slip fees: This is a tough one. Many places charge more per foot, but a 35' cat has allot more living space than a 35' mono, so per square foot of living space, a cat comes out ahead.
Sails: more expensive
Overall, it sounds like a cat cost more to maintain.
I just pulled my 40' cat and painted thte bottom. The haulout was the same price as for a mono. Haulout costs probably vary greatly with region and specific marinas. I used 1/4 gallon more paint than what I used to use for my 40' mono (and my mono was a narrow beam, short waterline design). On most cats, although there are two hulls, there really isn't a lot of surface area under water (that's kinda the whole point!).

Again, the engines are more expensive only if you have two inboard engines - but I will admit that most cats do.

Why are sails more expensive? My mono had a full battened, large roach main made of the same heavy weight cloth as my cat. I don't know why a sailmaker would charge by the type of boat. I think you have to compare sail area and construction here. I had an asymmetric made for the cat, and the cost was identical as the same sail for a mono.

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Old 03-10-2006, 17:25   #98
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I'd say painting the bottom of a mono would use more paint, because more of the boat is underwater. (that happens when you cart around several tonnes of lead) Topsides the cat would use more. How often do you paint the topsides compared to the bottom though? Again this is equal length boats, which as I said before isn't really a valid comparison anyway.

The cost of sails and rig really depends on the size of them. Equivalent length cats weigh a lot less than mono's so can use smaller rigs and sails.
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Old 03-10-2006, 17:52   #99
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I agree....much more surface area below the waterline on a mono. But that is a small outlay in material. I wonder, if a yard is doing the painting, will they charge the same, twice as much, or slightly less....?
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Old 03-10-2006, 18:09   #100
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Hi 44'cruising cat,I agree cost of rig and sails depends on size of them,but don't nesesarily agree that equivelant size cat has smaller rig. Our last 30 ft cruising cat had a 42 ft mast and had 43m2 mainsail and a 23m2 heady. Also bigger section bigger wire . Everyone comented on the amount of sail compared to eqiuvelent monos.

The boat we're building now we originally planned as a sailing cat, but was a bit cost prohibitive,so ditched the rig and sail idea. She is 50ft long and the mast would have been 20.3m long ,main 83.65 m2 [or 900sq ft] and the non overlapping jib 44.37m [or 477sq ft]. The mast section for this was impressive as were wire, winches etc.

I'd reckon in both of these examples theres more sail and DEFINETLY bigger mast and wire than a comparable size mono. Cats and to some extent Tri's don't spill the air like our hull challenged brethren. They do however have to suck up that load and hold it while accelerating. Horrific loads believe me.

Dave
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Old 03-10-2006, 22:54   #101
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Catmando, it all depends on what you call "equivalent" though doesn't it? I would not say a 30 foot mono was equivalent in any way (except length obviously) to a 30 foot cat. You would probably be looking at 35+ feet of mono to have similar accomodation and still have far less performance. To get the 35 foot mono to have anything like the performance of your 30 foot cat it would need a much bigger sail area and the rig to match it.

The boat I am currently building is 44 feet long (13.4m) has a designed displacement of 5200kg, mast height of 15.5m, nominal working sail area of 80m2 (main and self-tacking headsail). I know examples of this boat which sail at 100 - 120% true windspeed in light conditions.

An "equivalent" mono would need to be at least 50 feet to match the room, and how much sail would it need to carry to match the performance?

Previously I was considering building a fast cruising monohull, it was 46 feet LOA, displaced 8600kg, mast height 16.3 m (AD), 105m2 sail area. It didn't have anything like as much room as the cat I am building, and it wouldn't sail as fast.
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Old 28-11-2006, 14:19   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasco
Rick in Florida,

I was there in GT when this happened. My report was not third hand. I heard it all. This has nothing to do with the mono/cat debate. Everything can sink given the right circumstances. I think there has been at least one loss every year since I started going to the Bahamas years ago. Very few losses result from one thing happening. It's usually from a string of unfortunate incidents. I guess anchoring in the wrong spot might have been the start of these sinkings. A couple of years ago a Manta sank after being hit by a mailboat. My first year in GT (1990) a Hunter sank while trying to get into GT with a sea running. In 2005 a Nonsuch was lost on a reef at Rum Cay. The list goes on and on. If it floats, in the right circumstances, it'll sink.
If you have any additional info on the Nonsuch sinking, please tell. I'm thinking of buying a Nonsuch 30 and I'm researching the boat... so far, very impressed. Thanks.
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Old 28-11-2006, 16:41   #103
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Thank you for your answers.
If this is the case, I am a little bit surprised that Catamarans are not that popular. Is it only due to safety concerns
Is it possible to find a good Cat with the following parameters:

1 - Size - Should carry a family of 4 (probably around 30 feet).

2 - Good for offshore cruising.

3 - Boat that will last for a long time - 30-40 year (OK, maybe I am a little optimistic here, but my wife and I are both 32 years old).

4 - Minimal equipment - No AC, No refrigerator, No washer.

5 - Price - After the refit, shouldn't exceed 140K. Of course, it will be grate if I can find something for 100K.
Your size and price criteria are both pretty far from mainstream. Aside from accomodations, size figures heavily into offshore seaworthiness. Bigger is safer. There are a few cats in the mid 30-foot range which routinely go offshore (fx a Seawind 1000) but most designers seem reluctant to recommend going offshore in anything less than 40 feet.

If you look around, I think that you'll see used offshore capable catamarans starting at about $250,000. Since these will typically have three queen-sized berths, the price is pretty comparable to what you'd pay for a mono with equivalent accomodations. Not cheap. And that's probably why catamarans aren't more popular than they are.

If you're willing to give up on a bridgedeck you might be able to find a retired race boat in your price range.

-Scott
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Old 28-11-2006, 22:56   #104
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or you build your own much larger for much less and about a year fulltime
sean
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Old 06-12-2006, 15:34   #105
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My rule is that if anyone can think of a reason (usually fairly) to charge a cat twice, they will.

I'm paying 150% of the cost of a marina berth 'cos it is a cat (and that's UK South Coast, so to me it's serious money), plus twice cost of engine servicing, twice on anti-foul, but same on fridge, nav gear etc.
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