Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-09-2009, 15:55   #1
Registered User
 
vegasandre's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Moving to Coronado, Hurray!
Boat: Catalina 350 MK11
Posts: 80
Looking to Retire at 43 and Sail a Cat - What Would You Do?

Hi Everyone.
Here is my situation. I will keep it short. I will preface this by ackowledging that from many of the posts I read on her -my situation may sound like a "nice situation " for some. But its all perspective

a little about me...

OK I am 42 married, 3 kids 11/9/6. I live in Vegas and have a Catalina 350 in San Diego which we use frequently and charter when not using it.I am originally from NJ for my first 32 years. I am a Realtor listing foreclosures for the banks(so this economy- in fact for me- is hitting the lottery). I want to move away from Vegas(tired of it) and be on the ocean. land for 6-8 months ,boat for 4-6 months (or thereabouts). I have about 2 mill in liquid cash /misc hedged stocks and bonds(playing it safe)aquired over last couple years. I have a 700k house which i owe 700k (value dropped 400k so far - more to follow - hooray!).

here is what I want to do:

I would like to buy a cat in the mid 40-50 foot range-new or used and loaded. I would like to move and buy a house close to the ocean for cash in a good area with good schools. I can keep the boat some where else (caribbean ?, med?) and fly to it when we want to use it. The remainder of my money I want to safely invest and live off the interest and maybe keep the buisness going here in vegas.

what should I do?

-what kind of Cat would you look at and price range based on the assumptions I told you above.I have looked at Lagoon 44 and 50 ,leopard 46 as well as used catana's and dolphins

-where would you pick to be a good place to move based on the above.

-where would you pick as a good place to keep the boat?

-would you still work for a few more years and build the kitty even higher?

-what would you invest in to get a solid low risk 5-6% return


a couple of other things(dont get mad at me-everyone is different).

-we do not like to live frugally but dont spend crazily by any means.
-we dont want to homeschool(I hated homework as a kid and my wife would go nuts)
-we both hate cooking -but can get by(yeah I am being honest-so shoot me for it)
- I can fix things if shown once, but cant usually figure it out unless I have been shown

thanks for your help!
__________________

__________________
vegasandre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2009, 16:03   #2
Registered User
 
yottiejohn's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cruising in Caribbean
Boat: Bruce Roberts 45ft Monohull
Posts: 39
Hell for a 50 % share of your nest egg
I will give you my life history
as a comprehensive guide on how NOT to do it !!

John H
__________________

__________________
yottiejohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2009, 16:11   #3
Registered User
 
Stillraining's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Puget Sound
Boat: Irwin 41 CC Ketch
Posts: 2,876
OK :
First of all congratulations!
Secondly what you need to do is bring me up to speed as a partner and teach me your business so I can NO# keep it going for you and No2 make a bunch of money so we can join you..

This is no joke..its a win win for both of us.. I will in return show you once everything boat and were both good to go..
__________________
"Go simple, go large!".

Relationships are everything to me...everything else in life is just a tool to enhance them.
Stillraining is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2009, 16:22   #4
Registered User
 
Dave852's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Tavernier, Fl
Boat: Outremer 50
Posts: 657
Send a message via Skype™ to Dave852
Buy a waterfront house in the Florida Keys for $400 to $700k (used to be 800 to 1.2), buy my boat and keep in behind the house. Bahamas are close. Only problem is the money is almost gone. But lots of foreclosures to sell here as well.
__________________
Dave852 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2009, 16:25   #5
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
It's hard to advise someone who seems to be doing well. You seem to be requesting investing advice, lifestyle advice and cruising advice. I suspect you don't really need advice but perhaps opinion and validation.

Business - The business appears to be a success. Can you develop it into someone that can manage it for you or is it really hands on? What happens in a down market (or up market in your case)

Lifestyle - You say it is important that your kids stay in a structured school environment. I reckon if this decision is made you are going to be tied to land for another 11-12 years until your youngest is done.

Cruising - You have a nice boat, seems to be sorted out in terms of you using it and when not using it it is chartered.

Opinion - Move the business somewhere near the water or get someone to manage the business. Move the boat to where you are. Get a condo/waterfront property and live a lifestyle more connected to what you like. As for the upside down mortgage in Vegas, you may have to hold it or eat the loss.

Personally - I would protect what I have earned so far and keep working. I would evaluate whether I could move to a coast - San Diego, Seattle, or East Coast. Take long cruises in the summer with the kids.
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2009, 17:40   #6
Registered User
 
Aussiesuede's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC & Seattle, WA
Posts: 641
One word for your situation - Florida. Would seem the natural solution to pretty much most of what you wish to do.
__________________
I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. - (George Carlin)
Aussiesuede is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2009, 17:57   #7
Registered User
 
Keegan's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: World Resident
Boat: Dolphin 460 Catamaran WONDERLAND
Posts: 399
I would look at cats comming out of charter in the Caribbean. Or I would get a cat that is 4-6 years old that is in good condition but has been discounted well off the original price, including all the after market add ons. You can get a good Leopard cat, including a 46, that has been in charter for awhile.
Setting up your residence in Florida makes alot of sense and there is no state income tax on your investment income.

As for simple investment strategies, there is no 5-6% investment that is risk free being offered right now but there are some at 2-3%.

I suggest studying the simple investing philosophy of Bogleheads and decide if it is for you.

Bogleheads :: Index
__________________
Cheers,
Keegan
Keegan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2009, 18:21   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Boat: Will be a 50' Cat
Posts: 382
Ha, nice nest egg... BUT.. if you are going to have a water front house and a nice yacht and the bucks to fly the four of you to it.. .you best keep working... Without homeschooling you will just be looking at the water from your dock... seriously, you will have what, 2.5mths in the summer (which is no time to be in Florida BTW)... This is the biggest problem I see with your new lifestyle... As for a boat, if money were not an object I would get a 50' St. Francis... best on the market but it will set you back the better part of 900k... put that boat in CA or FLA waters and pay another $15-20k/yr in taxes on it... I figure I need about $100k/yr to have a modestly fun lifestyle with 2kids and a wife if we LIVE on the boat..this is staying a lot of the time in Marinas and doing things in the places we visit... if you are going to have a $1Mil house on the water somewhere you can add at least another $50k/yr that... Safe investment earning 5% these days ???? Forget it... you will have plenty of risk to earn that kind of payout...as modest as it sounds... BUT if you shed the material things and home school the kids your money would get you a GREAT CAT and a hell of alot of good times with kids while they get an appreciation for the world they will have to deal with soon enough... I would cast off, forget about the house and chase sunsets....

Just my 2 cents..

Cheers
__________________
capcook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2009, 18:39   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: CA
Boat: Cal 34
Posts: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegasandre View Post
Hi Everyone.
I have about 2 mill in liquid cash /misc hedged stocks and bonds(playing it safe)aquired over last couple years. I have a 700k house which i owe 700k (value dropped 400k so far - more to follow - hooray!).
If you step back from the idea of what you've lost and simply look at what you could gain, remember that housing in most coastal areas is down drastically so you will be trading one "bargain" for another. No net loss there, other than on a ledger sheet. My house is at LTV of over 140% right now, so don't feel too bad. :-)


Quote:
-what kind of Cat would you look at and price range based on the assumptions I told you above.I have looked at Lagoon 44 and 50 ,leopard 46 as well as used catana's and dolphins.
It sounds like you have looked around, but buying the boat based on its price... Well, you didn't really define your needs or wants? Floating condo? Proven gale-tested design? Super luxurious teak and mahogany? Have you sailed before? If not, you need to go take the family on several charters on different boats to see what you like. That will basically answer the question for you. If you're in the carribean, a cat is a no brainer, but in other places, there's real value in a monohull as well. For the half a million you may look for in a cat, you can get a pretty damn spacious mono with better motion in heavy seas and more weather capabilities (not to start an argument......)

Quote:
-where would you pick to be a good place to move based on the above.
Probably South Florida. The bahamas are a few days away and the entire Carribean is within reach. Problem is that cruising season, pretty much anywhere in the warm areas is during Winter. Summer is hurricane season and it's a tad risky to go anywhere south of the latitude 32 (San Diego and South Carolina)

Quote:
-where would you pick as a good place to keep the boat?
Where you live, unless that's extremely remote from your cruising grounds. How do you manage maintenance or ensure that it's taken care of in a storm? I guess you could charter when you're not there, but there's some questions about the quality of maintinance performed by some of the outfits.

Quote:
-would you still work for a few more years and build the kitty even higher?
I know plenty of people who went cruising with under $50,000, including the boat purchase. Why wait?

Quote:
-what would you invest in to get a solid low risk 5-6% return
Lots of cruisers swear by the passive income of real estate. Some people like your stocks/bonds. Nothing is for sure, that's not a good question to ask of this forum, I'd wager...



Quote:
-we do not like to live frugally but dont spend crazily by any means.
Living by the water can double your comparable cost of living, owning the boat doubles it again. Can you afford that?

Quote:
-we dont want to homeschool(I hated homework as a kid and my wife would go nuts)
Cruising season in North America is winter. If you need to do it in summer, it might be best to look to the Mediterranean or Southern hemisphere. Problem is that I always hear stories about keeping a boat in the Med involving lots of European red tape and high taxes.

Quote:
-we both hate cooking -but can get by(yeah I am being honest-so shoot me for it)
Well, most cruising is about getting away from civilization, and that often requires cooking. You CAN cruise places with restaurants, but you end up on shore as often as you're on the boat. Are you just looking for a floating hotel to sleep on? There may be more economical alternatives.

Quote:
- I can fix things if shown once, but cant usually figure it out unless I have been shown
Well, you can get things fixed by others, but as far as I know, it can be really absurdly expensive in many far away places. Just keep the space in your budget, I guess.


It sounds like you don't like the idea of being in a remote anchorage with nobody else around. Most cruisers are looking for exactly that.

I think you need to charter a few times and see if you actually like it. Like a lot of people say, it's easy to get the image of martinis at sunset, but if you put too much of that fantasy in your head, you miss out on the tropical squalls, cramped quarters, dinghy loads of equipment and regular repairs and maintenance.


Good luck, but take it slow. You will lose your shirt if you buy a boat and then don't use it much because your family hates it and then have to sell it after not completing regular maintenance a few years down the road. A boat is not like owning a car, or even a well-built house. It soaks up money much faster. :-)
__________________
HobieFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2009, 18:43   #10
Registered User
 
Keegan's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: World Resident
Boat: Dolphin 460 Catamaran WONDERLAND
Posts: 399
Quote:
Originally Posted by capcook View Post
..

Just my 2 cents..

Cheers
Your 2 cents could cost him 900k!!
__________________
Cheers,
Keegan
Keegan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2009, 19:23   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: CA
Boat: Cal 34
Posts: 127
Quote:

Cruising season in North America is winter. If you need to do it in summer, it might be best to look to the Mediterranean or Southern hemisphere. Problem is that I always hear stories about keeping a boat in the Med involving lots of European red tape and high taxes.
I forgot to mention. Northern latitudes are nicer in the summer. Puget sound area is nice and Sailing around Seattle, Vancouver and Victoria is quite good.

I've heard good things about Cape Cod and Maine and other northeast destinations in summer.

None of these are terribly "exotic" if that's what you're looking for....
__________________
HobieFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2009, 21:29   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 13
Cash up move to New Zealand,Great sailing,Buy cheap property ,great custom boat builders.Cheap marinas and great lamb.Sail to Pacific Islands in winter,meet you for a cold beer!
__________________
peter windsor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2009, 21:30   #13
Registered User
 
vegasandre's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Moving to Coronado, Hurray!
Boat: Catalina 350 MK11
Posts: 80
Hi Guys thank you for your great suggestions.

Ex Calif said many smart recommendations that actually fits our family to a tee. And he is spot on . As I read that , I know he is right. BUT I guess maybe its that time in life for a big change -I am burnt out and starting a mid life crisis or something-lol . So i figured I go this route over the other- trying trading in for two hot little 20 year olds in Thailand. So maybe It might be time for something radical yet smart and disciplined(if such a thing exists.)

Keegan- your suggestion of buying a boat coming out of charter (like a moorings 46-leopard 46)is definately a possibility-we have actually considered buying a Moorings 46 new and keep it in the charter for 5 years and refit and..... I have spent a year researching the plusses and minus of this but that is a another topic discussion for another time. Thank you for that investment link - it is a great site

capcook- Yes- the St francis - nice boat - I was hoping they would have one in Annapolis is 2 weeks(we are going) but such is not the case. Maybe i work for 5 more years ..and the foreclosures keep on coming and get a gunboat. lol. But actually your breakdown of what you need to spend to have fun is kind for your lifestyle is exactly our lifestyle also. 75-100k to live on a boat per year- that is about right for us(I Dont want to offend the frugals-sorry if i did). as far as homeschooling- not optional. many parents arent cut out for it and that is us (I do admire all the families that go cruising whether its a one year sabbatical or longer-and stories of homeschooling draw much admiration and amazement from me-kudos to all those cruising school teacher mom's )

the Florida suggestions- believe me I really considered Fla. i like it. I actually like storms and Hurricanes. I LOVE THE FISHING(oh yeah i am also a hardcore Offshore fisherman). can get used to the humidity- no biggie. (vegas 110 degrees, no humidity is the same as FLA 95 deg and 95%) Wife hates bugs, come to think of it I dont really like them either. But such is true-our cruising time would coincide with FLA's worst time. but it still is a possibility.

Hobiefan- thank you for taking the time to answer everything-very thought out. We have a monohull already the Catalina 350. I love monos too. But I think with the three kids and our lifestyle A cat might better suit us. We do like space and ameneties and the kids seem to like the non- heeling aspect of the cats. we have been sailing in the BVI , Newport RI area and of course So cal so have been getting decent experiance. We are going to Italy next summer for my wifes 40th and going to greece for the last week and getting a Moorings boat there too.

"I know plenty of people who went cruising with under $50,000, including the boat purchase. Why wait? "

I truly admire these guys- they got some balls that I havent grown yet.
I constantly read these forums and many of the topics are about going cruising on limited budgets and what the yearly cost is ....it amazes me . For us however - we are 100% in the capcook camp.
as far as the cooking thing. we can do it . We just dont enjoy it . as far as the fixing thing- I can do small jobs but the bigger ones will probably be contracted out. as far as the real estate investing - may be buying 5 or 6 rentals at 100-125k cash and renting them out at 1200 a month can probaly generate 4-5k per month which would be a ROI that we could live with and I am experianced in this.


thanks again keep the ideas coming before i snap and go to Thailand or something
__________________
vegasandre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2009, 21:42   #14
Registered User
 
sww914's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Punta De Mita
Boat: Vagabond 39 Hull # 1
Posts: 1,842
You have a lot of money and plenty of assets. It strikes me that you don't quite have enough money to rid yourselves of the things that you don't like (cooking, fixing things, homework, etc.) and still keep your nice house and have a yacht lifestyle. With all due respect, you have some tough choices to make. You can probably ditch the house and go boat full time but you will need to school your kids and cook unless you can afford to buy a 70-80-90 foot boat and pay crew but that will require more time working before you can do that. If it were me I would get rid of some dislikes and some property and just go. Maybe you can afford a large enough boat to accommodate a young liveaboard teacher/cook but you might not find any career crew people to fit your needs, IMO.
__________________
sww914 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2009, 21:46   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: N.H.
Posts: 102
Send a message via Yahoo to watson1990
Do you want an Honest answer? do you really ? I will give you an honest answer as long as you and my felow forummites dont get mad at me,okay?
tell me you want an honest answer and i will tell you .
Watson
__________________

__________________
watson1990 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anyone Ever Sail a Cat with an Aerorig? videorov Multihull Sailboats 23 23-09-2009 10:17
Storm Sail for Cat without Inner Forestay STEREOTYPE Multihull Sailboats 10 04-08-2009 18:09
Retire Sailing Website Gone hpeer Off Topic Forum 3 02-05-2009 10:43
Main sail furling on a Cat Palarran Multihull Sailboats 2 15-06-2008 21:05
Why Can't a Cat Sail High Lattitudes?? ssullivan Multihull Sailboats 39 15-04-2008 17:50



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:49.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.