Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 21-09-2009, 20:28   #46
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: N.H.
Posts: 102
Send a message via Yahoo to watson1990
My blather

And ,after looking back at my post,I must apologize. my post added nothing positive to the discussion and I must admit that,at the very least,i was cocky,,prolly a lot more than that.
you asked a legitimate question and I was of no help.
I will do better in the future.

Watson
__________________

__________________
watson1990 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2009, 23:02   #47
CF Adviser
 
Intentional Drifter's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pac NW
Boat: Boatless, for now, Cat enthusiast
Posts: 1,281
Snort -- Perhaps you were thinking of the Calvert School, but there are several others; see Onpassage.com :* children cruising on yachts and sailboats for a listing and descriptions. Love your avatar, by the way!

Andre -- Yes, the PacNW climate isn't for everybody (a fact for which those of us who live here are thankful), and if you're one of those who "needs" hot, you wouldn't be happy here. As to reconciling your dilemma, perhaps doing a bit of a values clarification process with a third party (like a therapist) would actually be a helpful thing. Despite the often-heard advice of "go now", the two of you are contemplating very serious changes that will have significant, and potentially life-changing, effects on your three children. That fact by itself warrants serious reflection and I applaud your desire to do so.

Although I have my opinions about the pros and cons of home-schooling, that opinion was only intended for us and our child. I want to emphasize -- there are ways to do it while cruising -- and your kids could very well come out the other end with knowledge and experiences that they could never have in a traditional education. There will be a compromise involved, but isn't that true of just about everything? It would certainly require a serious commitment from both of you -- a commitment that it doesn't sound like you're ready to make, at least not yet. It might be a good thing to check it out, though. Send an email to the Scuds and Ocelots and see what they did and what they thought of it. Never know -- you might be surprised at their answers.

Speaking only for myself, if at age 20-something I would have found out that my folks had the opportunity to take me on a world cruise as a child, and didn't, I would have been quite confused -- why the heck not? Even now, although our 20-something son has quite a full life of his own, he jumps at the chance to join us whenever he can.

ID
__________________

__________________
Intentional Drifter

Observations are gold; hypotheses, silver; and conclusions, bronze.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.--Ben Franklin

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.--Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Intentional Drifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2009, 11:45   #48
Registered User
 
vegasandre's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Moving to Coronado, Hurray!
Boat: Catalina 350 MK11
Posts: 76
update - buying a Moorings Leopard 46

Hi Everyone I just got back from the boat show">Annapolis boat show and would like your thoughts.

The show was great -probably too many painkillers and roast beef sandwiches though.

Anyway , My wife and I have taken everyones advice and based on everything already stated- our best plan appears :

-Keep the buisness going in Vegas of course
-keep the Kids in school(we talked to many people homeschooling at the show and reaffirmed that Lisa isnt cut out for homeschooling)
-look for a new residency within 2 years closer to the the ocean in a location that suits both of us.
-this gives us about 10 weeks in summer and a few weeks here and there during the school year to sail in other locations (while still doing the weekend San Diego gigs with Our Catalina.)

So based on this and the Fact that we Love Chartering in the BVI and are looking to do other places for longer stints- the Moorings ownership Of a Leopard 46 appeals to us.

we can sail for basically at least month somewhere in the summer and at various other times in many great destinations which we are planning on going to anyway.

here is what was offered us:
Price $599000
special downpayment- 89k
Financing 6.25 % 15 years

Guaranteed revenue-$5400 /mo for 56 months
Payment around 5k per month.
No other expenses besides the usual turn fees(525) when using the boat.
I can gift or sell two low season weeks per year(I could sell them easily for around 4k per week).

I get 2 weeks prime time ,2 weeks low time (long term booking) and 4-7 weeks short term booking (16 days in advance or less) time per year.

If I apply the 8k per year and extra revenue toward the mortgage I would have a balance of about 275k ish at end of term.

I would have a decent tax advantage by owning this(which I also need) and can deduct interest and some depreciation(consult your tax advisor)

at the end of the term i have a very quick leopard 46 that will need upgrading/refitting(estimate about 50k) for possible part time liveaboard or I can roll it into a new moorings boat or stick it into another Charter fleet .

the Only unknown is value of the boat after the term -appears to be in the 50-55% or original value range- but that will be largely unknow due to economic climate at time, possible glut in Cats coming out of charter, possible who knows what- So i am estimating lower to play it safe.


what do you think?
I used www.sailonline.com for much of my financial estimates and the calculations with usuing the boat for 5 weeks a year gave me a basic savings of 60% over the price of the charter of the same boat for weeks used incorparating everything including tax deductions and loss of interest on my 89k downpayment (which by the way they used a 5% calculation for which is more currently like 2%)

basically i feel that you cant put a price on 4 or 5 Month long cruises with your growing kids in various destinations of the world. It will be something they always will remember
__________________
vegasandre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2009, 13:03   #49
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Boat: Will be a 50' Cat
Posts: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegasandre View Post
here is what was offered us:
Price $599000
special downpayment- 89k
Financing 6.25 % 15 years

Guaranteed revenue-$5400 /mo for 56 months
Payment around 5k per month.
No other expenses besides the usual turn fees(525) when using the boat.
I can gift or sell two low season weeks per year(I could sell them easily for around 4k per week).
That is a heck of a deal... I would check the fine print... who gaurantees them ? I checked out one Charter deal that is based up there in Annapolis and they wanted 25% of the Charters for Management, you pay they Maintenance, You pay the Insurance, You pay the Dockage...They were basically looking to get Risk Free, Interest Free CAPEX. There are significant tax advantages which you seem to be aware of, but at the end of the day and net of the tax advantages you have to ask yourself are you better off from an equity POV with the value of your now very Used boat in 3-5yrs. Your deal actually cashflows without the Tax advantages... very good, just make sure it's not TOO good...

Cheers
__________________
capcook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2009, 14:44   #50
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 28
Leopard 46

I was in Miami the week before the boat show an got a chance to see the new Leopard 46 docked at the Catamaran Co. slip in Ft. Lauderdale. I have to admit she is a beautiful Cat. As with anything else the design, technology and comfort also improve in the boat world. I when to see some other cats, the St. Francis 44 and a Nautitech 435. After visiting the Leopard I decided that the best thing is to wait a couple years before buying a Cat when these new design cats come into the used market. One of the many things that impressed me in the Leopard 46 was the engine position, the engine is placed facing backwards with the saildrive in front of it, simple but brilliant solution to give more space for the engine room; who said that the engine had to be in front of the saildrive in the first place? This is a boat not a car, and this new mentality is what I though was brilliant in the Leopard. Two points I did not like much was the semi fly bridge, don't like those at all; and the boat is heavy, heavier than expected by the builder.
Keep us updated if you buy it, good luck.
__________________
Augusto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2009, 16:12   #51
Registered User
 
spencerj1961's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Posts: 14
I was looking at the Financing Rate of 6.25% and thought that seems high. It is like your monthly return from them is partially paid from the high interest rate you are paying them. Could you not borrow the purchase amount needed at a lower rate?
It would be interesting to see how they responded to you purchasing the cat out right. I wonder if your revenue stream would be lower.
Moorings is in this business to make money of of you and your money. I could be wrong, but they are not doing this to be nice, it is so they can make money


spencerj
__________________
spencerj1961 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2009, 16:21   #52
Registered User
 
vegasandre's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Moving to Coronado, Hurray!
Boat: Catalina 350 MK11
Posts: 76
Thanks Spencer- actually 6.25 right now on a boat is the going low rate.
I am sure you can do some other kind of financing like a line of credit from your local bank secured by something else which is usually a better rate.
Their have this deal locked in with CGI finance. They used to use Essex but something didnt work out along the line.

Moorings makes money off everything.

Lets see:
They actually own the Leopard builder- make money off the buy.
They make money of the chartering (though I am sure not as easily these days)
Make money if you try to sell the boat at end of term -10% commission is standard if you broker it through them.
Put it in Footloose after you finish with the Mooorings and they own that too...

or you can just buy a new Moorings and repeat the process.

But depsite it all I think it works for me anyway. Key is you have to use it at least 4 weeks/yr to justify it or it doesnt make sense.
__________________
vegasandre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2009, 17:28   #53
Registered User
 
spencerj1961's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Posts: 14
" But despite it all I think it works for me anyway. Key is you have to use it at least 4 weeks/yr to justify it or it does not make sense. "

As long as it works for you and your accountant has no problem with it, that is all that matters.

good luck

spencerj
__________________
spencerj1961 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-10-2009, 17:12   #54
Registered User
 
allardr's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Melbourne, FL
Boat: Chris Craft 41' Finally
Posts: 7
Looking at doing something similar, that is why I joined this forum. I agree with florida but not with the keys. Something around Cape Canaveral on the intercoastal with a direct shot at an inlet and no bridges to go under in between. I have a home in Grant Forida with sebastian inlet six miles away, dangerous inlet but if you have time to plan your entry/exit with the tides it is great. I will even sell you my home if the price is right and can work a deal on my fishing boat which sits out on its lift almost year round. We have great schools locally, both my boys are in college now. I really like the Lagoon 50 and the Jeneau Sun Odyssey 54DS and 57 but you may want to look at the Africa Cat, new in early 2003 or 2002 they even have all green models with electric drives. I would still want some sort of generator on board for emergencies. Good luck.
__________________
allardr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2009, 13:20   #55
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Was Sydney, now Austin, TX
Posts: 30
Interesting thread! I think if your goal is to be financially independent and be able to cruise indefinitely without having to work again, you will need more than $2,000,000 capital.

Here's a rough analysis of the amount you might need.

Assuming the following monthly expenses:
Boat maint., fuel, insurance, docking = 2,500
Living expenses = 5,000
Other expenses = 2,000
Total annual expenses = 114,000 (this is your net annual income required and will increase each year with inflation)

Assuming you invest your money in a diversified portfolio of equity and bonds that returns an average of 8% per year over the long term and that you pay 25% capital gains tax on withdrawals, the gross (pre-tax) amount you need to withdraw per year = 152,000

Because you are so young, you will have to live off the income from your investment portfolio and not tap the capital (at least for a while). Let's say that to keep up with inflation you will only be able to withdraw 4% of the total capital invested each year. The total amount you would need invested (earning 8%) is $2,850,000. Add to that the cost of your boat (say $500,000) and the total capital you would need to sail away indefinitely is $3,350,000.

This assumes that you own your house outright. If not, you will need to save more to pay it off, or add a monthly mortgage payment to your living expenses, which will increase the amount of capital you need to invest, or get rid of your house and live on your boat. If you do own your house then you could rent it out and generate some extra income to reduce the amount of capital you need, but that's a major pain in the *ss. Probably better off selling it and adding it to your investment capital.

You got some great advice on this forum, and it looks like you have decided to keep your business going while you build your retirement funds and invest in a charter boat. This is a great choice and gives you the best compromise IMO.

Best of luck to you!

Regards,
Doug
__________________
StuckInTexas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2009, 14:44   #56
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 75
The American Dream....

Yep, I've already done these sort of calculations...& by the way, where are you getting an 8% diversified portfolio return???....and the answer is that 90% of Americans have no retirement future. At least not the one they think about.
The effect of inflation will kill most folks' dreams....I hear the rediculous talk of a goal "saving a million by the time you retire". ( Not on this forum, but in the general press.) What they never say is that in 20 years time, that million will feel like 200k of today's money. Taxes will be higher, ( anyone want to bet on how long Cap Gains stays at 15%? ) so poverty waits for most in the guise of the Walmart greeter.
Inflation linked annuities yield about 3.5% these days....depending on one's annual living requirement.... so, after taxes.....just how big a nest egg will most of us need?
It's all so damned depressing...which is why the mainstream financial press will not touch it. imho
__________________
Brogan007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2009, 16:11   #57
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: galveston tx.
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,349
Geeeeez Stuck in Texas how can you spend so much money living on a sailboat! My wife and I can cruise on $20,000 a year if we're not careful. I guess it depends on your lifestyle and expectations.
__________________
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2009, 17:14   #58
Registered User
 
BIG JOE's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Huntington NY
Posts: 36
Ok great so in short you helped destroy the housing market by helping your bank write note to people who couldn't afford it, then you got them to sign some rediculous note for interest only. Then when everything fell apart your making another commission on selling foreclosures, and your house is devaluated but your money is hidden and you'll probably walk away from the house your in whereby making the American taxpayer pay for your house, and then move to sunny san diego with cash in hand get a great deal on a house through your bank have your kids go to private school and a south american maid for the wife which you will pay 5 dollars and hour for and you could join the local yacht club and talk about sailing around the world which you will never do because there is no money in it. What you will probably do is boast to people out there while your smoking 25 dollar cubans about screwing the government and the people on this post two times over while you make another commission.
In closing sir if I've been blunt and hurt your feelings I appologize but the clear truth of the matter is that most people that desire to dissappear on a sailboat and travel to exotic places or find some secluded lagoon to relax in are in fact just trying to get away from people like you who have destroyed the United States of America to line your own pockets with money. If you move on the water I'm getting a house and will look for the back yard forum instead.
__________________
BIG JOE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2009, 17:25   #59
Registered User
 
BIG JOE's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Huntington NY
Posts: 36
I have to appologize sir, I don't know you and its not fair for me to say what I said without knowing you. So disregard my last comment. I guess I've had some adverse experience with the way this country and its economy are going and I shouldn't take it out on you.
__________________
BIG JOE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2009, 17:42   #60
Registered User
 
vegasandre's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Moving to Coronado, Hurray!
Boat: Catalina 350 MK11
Posts: 76
Well Joe :
I actually find that response quite funny !

But then I realize you are being serious and sarcastic at same time.
Anyway Just to help out a little more:

In 2004-2005 (when prices more than doubled overnight here) I refused to sell any of my clients a home -Sure I would list a home to sell, But I would not sell them one as I was anticipating a crash even sooner than it actually came (though I didnt expect it to be that bad). As every blackjack dealer ,stripper and whoever decided to get their real estate lic and make a easy 100-200k a year selling houses - I was busting my hump doing 200-300 bpos (broker price opinions) a month preparing for the impending doom.

As far as taxes - I pay beyond a ton- it makes me cry sometimes.

As far as sailing - I love it -its a dream which I plan to one day pursue full time without any financial restraints.

However your San Diego analogy is correct though - I may try to by a great deal at the bottom (which by the way is not here despite the 20 offers per house and dow 10k and other false stimulus headlines)

The previous poster is correct though - I calculate i will need 125-150k in income per year in passive income to live this lifestyle.(no offense to the 20k person) It would appear the 3.5-4 mill number to be accurate to support this .
__________________

__________________
vegasandre is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anyone Ever Sail a Cat with an Aerorig? videorov Multihull Sailboats 23 23-09-2009 09:17
Storm Sail for Cat without Inner Forestay STEREOTYPE Multihull Sailboats 10 04-08-2009 17:09
Retire Sailing Website Gone hpeer Off Topic Forum 3 02-05-2009 09:43
Main sail furling on a Cat Palarran Multihull Sailboats 2 15-06-2008 20:05
Why Can't a Cat Sail High Lattitudes?? ssullivan Multihull Sailboats 39 15-04-2008 16:50


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:57.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.