Looking for first Cruising Cat

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by yeloya

Bali has absolutely nothing to do with Catana other than being built by the same yard. To me Bali is just a joke, Mr Poncin , the owner of the group is a finance person as far as I know, Mr Fay as a naval architect is someone that I've never heard off, nor any successful boat that he ever designed.
The people who liked the solid bow should be the people who never sailed a cat on a bumpy sea.
To me using Catana name for this boat is a huge mistake and the best way to ruin brand heritage of Catana.

Cheers

Yeloya

I'm surprised you've never heard of the guy who designed the Lagoon 43 Power Cat.. the Lagoon 380 and other boats..
http://www.theyachtmarket.com/boats_for_sale/1390729/

[boatman61]

OPEN OCEAN 650 SAILING CATAMARAN BY DU TOIT YACHT DESIGN ... Designer: Du Toit Yacht Design ... Xavier Bouin (1) Xavier Fay (1) ...

[sailhand]

I have lived aboard for 13 years on my oram 44 ft cat. For my two cents worth I would not own a production boat, the build quality of the ones I have seen and worked on are Generally atrocious. I am sure there are good production boats out there but I havent seen one I would like to own, other than maybe one of the f33s out of the phillipines. I'm not talking about the glossy liners and the beautiful upholstery, I'm talking about the polyester and balsa, a really bad combination in my opinion. Mini keels are a disaster and sail drives are worse, our sons cat cut off its mini keel with its anchor chain and so did one of our friends. They also sail around really badly on anchor in wind against tide situations and have a habit of dragging anchor more often whilst sailing around on the pick. Dagger boards are far more user friendly, and shallower draft. The only good thing about saildrives is the money they make for the builders as they are quick and easy to install. Kick up rudders are great and if I had a choice I'd probably go outboards for there ease of maintenance and low expense. If installed right they work really well. I have diesels and shaft drives, not a bad option and im not really sure if i had the choice id get outboards or stick with my shaftdrives. My boat has enough rocker and shallow shaft angle that when i dry out on the beach my shafts are basically clear of the deck. I sailed out of an anchorage recently under head sail only in 15 knots of wind and past the lagoon that left 45 minutes before me within 6 miles and my boats no speed machine, up to 5 knots of wind on the right angle I can do wind speed and after that the drag from my fixed blade props slows me down. I have a comfortable boat with plenty of room for us. I like fishing and snorkelling and walking on the beach, call me crazy but I like it better than fixing 4 toilets but each to their own. I have a 36 ft cat on 44ft hulls at around 4 ton lightship and it's great but it's not everyone's cup of tea. As in every boat it's all a compromise and it depends what you value the most. I hope you find what your looking for, for 400k US you could buy a great custom built boat in australia. It would definitely be worth your while to check out boats in australia you could get a nice boat and have it delivered for less than you might think given the current exchange rate. There are some nice foam core resin infused production boats being built, the Chincogan 52 is a good example of a quality production build. You can get performance and comfort for big money or you can get reasonable performance and reasonable comfort for reasonable money. At the moment quite a few boats are for sale in thailand thanks to the pirates in the Gulf and the headwinds if they try to go back from whence they came. It's end of the road for a lot of cruisers and worth checking out for a bargain.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by sailhand

I have lived aboard for 13 years on my oram 44 ft cat. For my two cents worth I would not own a production boat, the build quality of the ones I have seen and worked on are Generally atrocious. I am sure there are good production boats out there but I havent seen one I would like to own, other than maybe one of the f33s out of the phillipines. I'm not talking about the glossy liners and the beautiful upholstery, I'm talking about the polyester and balsa, a really bad combination in my opinion. Mini keels are a disaster and sail drives are worse, our sons cat cut off its mini keel with its anchor chain and so did one of our friends. They also sail around really badly on anchor in wind against tide situations and have a habit of dragging anchor more often whilst sailing around on the pick. Dagger boards are far more user friendly, and shallower draft. The only good thing about saildrives is the money they make for the builders as they are quick and easy to install. Kick up rudders are great and if I had a choice I'd probably go outboards for there ease of maintenance and low expense. If installed right they work really well. I have diesels and shaft drives, not a bad option and im not really sure if i had the choice id get outboards or stick with my shaftdrives. My boat has enough rocker and shallow shaft angle that when i dry out on the beach my shafts are basically clear of the deck. I sailed out of an anchorage recently under head sail only in 15 knots of wind and past the lagoon that left 45 minutes before me within 6 miles and my boats no speed machine, up to 5 knots of wind on the right angle I can do wind speed and after that the drag from my fixed blade props slows me down. I have a comfortable boat with plenty of room for us. I like fishing and snorkelling and walking on the beach, call me crazy but I like it better than fixing 4 toilets but each to their own. I have a 36 ft cat on 44ft hulls at around 4 ton lightship and it's great but it's not everyone's cup of tea. As in every boat it's all a compromise and it depends what you value the most. I hope you find what your looking for, for 400k US you could buy a great custom built boat in australia. It would definitely be worth your while to check out boats in australia you could get a nice boat and have it delivered for less than you might think given the current exchange rate. There are some nice foam core resin infused production boats being built, the Chincogan 52 is a good example of a quality production build. You can get performance and comfort for big money or you can get reasonable performance and reasonable comfort for reasonable money. At the moment quite a few boats are for sale in thailand thanks to the pirates in the Gulf and the headwinds if they try to go back from whence they came. It's end of the road for a lot of cruisers and worth checking out for a bargain.

Hi Sailhand,

can you post any out of water photos of your Oram of the shaft installation and also would be interested in the motor installation.

Cheers, great vessel.

[yeloya]

Originally Posted by StuM

Depends on what you mean by "Catana". Are you talking about the organisation or the brand

The Catana Group (formerly Poncin Yachts Group) produces two brands of catamarans, Catana and Bali.

Just like the Beneteau Group produces different brands of boats, including the Lagoon. So is a Lagoon a Beneteau Lagoon? (Google finds lots of advertisements for Beneteau Lagoons for charter or for sale.)

Of course I meant the brand Catana. The fact that Catana group is producing Bali, it doens't mean that they use the same materiel , same architect and are opting for totally different audiance with a totally different concept.

Cheers

Yeloya

[yeloya]

Originally Posted by boatman61

OPEN OCEAN 650 SAILING CATAMARAN BY DU TOIT YACHT DESIGN ... Designer: Du Toit Yacht Design ... Xavier Bouin (1) Xavier Fay (1) ...

Hello Boatman,

I am quite interested with sailing catamarans in particular but I confess I'd never heard this brand.
I've checked their web site and found the designer Du Toit but couldn't see Mr Fay. Anyway , I trust you and I stand corrected..

Cheers

Yeloya

[boatman61]

Du Toit Yacht Design was/is a design team, as far as I'm aware few boats these days are an individual project.. for example the Lagoon 380 Series is credited to several different designers Xavier Fay being one off them.. its not important enough to worry about.

[jmac9365]

I have a 2009 Lagoon 380 premium S2 owners version never Chartered owned it since it was brand new .....for sale
Video link
https://youtu.be/xmlN-7yHu5Q

[Nahbrown]

Originally Posted by jmac9365

I have a 2009 Lagoon 380 premium S2 owners version never Chartered owned it since it was brand new .....for sale
Video link
https://youtu.be/xmlN-7yHu5Q

Where is this cat located and what is the asking price?

Edit- never mind, I found it. http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2009...s#.WKfY_nROKhA

[jmac9365]

Originally Posted by Nahbrown

Where is this cat located and what is the asking price?

Right now we are in Venice fl. On the west coast...I am almost at the end of a broker agreement where they have it listed for $329,000, once I am out of that agreement I could cut that price by $20,000... it is a out of the ordinary boat.. it is absolutely mint, TurnKey.... you will not be able to do anything to the boat... to start the boat came from the factory as a premium S2 model which has upgraded engines in fuel tanks and a few other features,on top of that it has 6K Kohler generator 3 Marine air AC and heat units $3,500 custom mattress in the master owners version one owner never been chartered only about a thousand hours on the engines fiberglass hardtop AB dinghy with eight horsepower Yamaha motor, jabsco Deluxe flush electric heads, 200 foot of oversized chain mantis 45-pound anchor Fortress second anchor, all tables and countertops have been custom made with Corian, outside cooler has been refitted to a freezer refrigerator, Garmin 7212 GPS ultra-large Screen.... I could go on and on...there is absolutely nothing else on the market even close to it I've looked high and low.. My number is 321-794-5333 if you have any questions , we could set up a time to see it if you like as well... john

[poiu]

I checked out that Bali. Look at this bridge deck clearance. Not good.

http://www.bali-catamarans.com/media...li-4.5-23-.jpg

The full size, walk-in, restaurant capable, fridge-freezer is pretty amazing too.

http://bali.e-monsite.com/medias/images/bali-4.5-5-.jpg

When the world population fills the land and we need floating houses to fill up the remaining bits of the globe I know where to look.

[jmac9365]

Originally Posted by Nahbrown

Where is this cat located and what is the asking price?

Edit- never mind, I found it. http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2009...s#.WKfY_nROKhA

Don't go by their asking price like I said I'm almost out of that agreement with them and I'll be able to get the price down just under 300,000

[patrickvela]

Having lived on our Nautitech 47 for the last 3 years and sailed it from Spain to Aus across the pacific, I think it's with a mention. The biggest criticism that normally comes up is the exposed helm stations, but then I point out we are on autopilot 99% of the time so it's never been an issue for us. The interior/cockpit layout is extremely practical and pleasant. A criticism would be the Saloon sofa could do with remodeling to make it more confortable. The shallow keels have been great for us as we can dry the boat out on a beach easily and safely to clean the bottom or deal with Saildrive issues. Plus, they aren't part of the hull construction so you can bash them hard and not damage the integrity of the boat. Places to haul cats across the pacific are not easy to find.
Like all production boats, they aren't perfect, but I haven't seen many other designs that tick the boxes as a practical Blue Water cruiser as well as the 47 does.

[NoDramas]

Originally Posted by yeloya

Hello Boatman,

I am quite interested with sailing catamarans in particular but I confess I'd never heard this brand.
I've checked their web site and found the designer Du Toit but couldn't see Mr Fay. Anyway , I trust you and I stand corrected..

Cheers

Yeloya

Very well known Kiwi sailing/building/designing family. I think there is one on trademe.co.nz (New Zealand's eBay)

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Do you really want performance or the feeling of performance?

A 28' mono with the rail buried will feel exciting but might only be doing 6.5kts.

On a big cat, your wife might be taking a nap on the back deck while you sip you coffee at the helm, all wile doing 12kts.

Which is your idea of performance?

As others said, you need to hit some boat shows and really formulate what you are looking for. Electric drivetrain is just silly unless you are a true purist sailor who refuses to start the engine unless absolutely necessary and in that case several of the models on your list probably drop away because they are designed for cruising first sailing second.

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

Finleyg, yes, it's going to be different than your Corsair. I owned and raced a Corsair 24 for four years, and a Corsair 28R for seven years. Key West Race Week, NOOD, Leukemia Cup, Corsair Nationals, and even some offshore distance racing. Those boats have NO bad point of sail. Our personal record on the 28R was 23 knots, going downwind with spinnaker up, in a race. We had long stretches in an offshore race with the spin, all over 19 knots. But going offshore in big waves, that boat was anything but comfortable. Ditto on "cruising" it.

We've had the Seawind 1000 since 2007. It is very well built. There is an active owners group forum, and includes the factory as well. Sourcing parts for 2002 boat, replacing lexan windows, maintenance issues - the factory rep has been very helpful. We've had only minor issues associated with our boat. I also like the dual steering wheels, the outboards (originals lasted ten years, and I just replaced them both when one of them failed), solar panels cover refrig and lighting needs, and our DC watermaker, and we don't carry a generator. We took a three month cruise - Texas to Bahamas and back - last year and everything worked fantastic. The boat also sails very nice, extremely well considering it has mini keels.

I really like the dual wheels and the fact that there is no step-up, or elevated steering perch, or whatever to deal with. You steer, you walk around, you tap the autopilot, you can sit on the seats in the back and see all thru the saloon forward to water, and have 360 deg view. And we've had 14 people eating fajitas and drinking margaritas onboard in a raftup. NO ONE steps on our boat and says "dang, I really hate all of this open space and 360 deg view."

If I had more time for long distance cruising, my next boat would be the Seawind 1160 Lite. Again, I really like the dual outboards and dual wheel placement concept, and I've owned a Seawind long enough to trust the brand. The Maine Cat 38 looks interesting as well, but I don't like the wheel being in the middle of the saloon. That said, I suspect the price point is lower than the Seawind, as the Vietnam builds struggle to compete with their $40k transportation cost to US. That - to me - is the only downside of the Seawind. If you have the money to spend, I would also look at the Seawind 1190 Race (I think that is the model name), that is built lighter, and had daggerboards for performance. As I'm mostly a day sailor and weekender - except for three month trips every other year - I really have a hard time justifying upsizing at the moment. It's also very easy to maneuaver a 33 ft cat with dual motors in and out of a tight slip, vs a higher-freeboard, 38 ft cat. I might add hull extensions like the last of the SW1000XL's models had, which makes it a 36 ft boat, and improves performance due to both longer LWL and alleviates a water exit turbulence issue the original 33 ft hulls had. The boat has plenty of sail area to take advantage of longer LWL.

As someone else suggested, I would also look at the Chris White Atlantic cat series. A friend owned an Atlantic 42, with boards, and raced it quite competitively at a PHRF 48 sec/mi rating, against a well sailed Corsair fleet. So for pure performance, that would match up directly with your Corsair. (Assuming you had a CC model, and not an R)

Originally Posted by makana

We've been living aboard our 38 ft catamaran Makana for over 11 years. We sailed across the Atlantic from Africa in winter and have spent the past 7 years sailing between Maine and the Bahamas, Cuba last winter. We feel we've found the perfect match for performance, livability, size and enjoyment from our Admiral 38. We were at the factory for three months during the build and were able to customize numerous options. At time I wish she were larger other times such as yesterday while cleaning the bottoms I wish she was smaller. For us we appreciate that fact that she can handle blue water with our top speed to date being 16.9 knots as well as fit under bridges on the ICW. There are photos and links on my blog about the boat KITCHEN HUI | Food Blog, Easy Eats - Awesome Adventures

Cheers!