Liveaboard Family of 4 - Catamaran Choice?

[StuM]

Originally Posted by 0224scalpel

Hi there dreamers ..cats are total money drainers...please just buy a house for your family . In 2 years time ..boat size is to big over 40 foot its a running weekly bill if 400 dollars just maintenence. Okay .i too did wait years with family . Research too .lived on board to ..ended buying a beach front land in philippines .building a house as we speak. Live aboard .on a cat .gosh the daily water supply the toilet issues..solar generators changing of sails oh thats 10.000 dollars .list goes on .they say the best part in owning a boat . Is the day your buy the boat . And the day your sell the boat happy dreaming ..but please get a reality check first

And yet your CF profile About Me says: "wanting to get a catamaran build in the philippines"

[akprb]

Not cool ;-)

One man's 400/week running costs is another man's pocket change. If ones earned it do what you want and personally the idea of a house on a beach is unpalatable. The bugs, everything rotting out from underneath you, stuck if you don't like the neighbors, property taxes in some parts of the world, insurance, tsunamis, the list goes on.

It's all relative and to each his own. I sure would never try to talk one of those "beach house dreamers" out of their dream.

Side note Lepord 45 a good candidate along with a Voyage 50. Don't rule out one off custom cats as well. Some really nice ones out there priced right and well built.

[TravellingKiwis]

Everyone has different needs. I like the owners version with added forward compartment berth. This means as a family of 4 we are very comfortable but we can still have another family of four visit with kids sharing 2 to a cabin.
My wife and i are comfortable all the time with a nice size shower and private area. Importantly they cost less new but appear to maintain better resale as there are a lot less on the 2nd hand market due to their lack of appeal in charter.
Of course the important thing is what you want, not other people.

[thelongsummer]

Thank you so much everyone for spending the time to write up your experiences, thoughts - lots to think about and mull over.

We'll definitely reach out again soon - in the meantime keep the input coming - more the merrier [emoji3]

[fuentes]

Have you looked at "catamarans for sale by owner"? There are some nice ones for good prices. Have a nice day.

[maxingout]

We circumnavigated in our Privilege 39 catamaran, and when I sail back to Australia, it will be in the same cat.

Thirty-nine feet worked well for us with a family of four people.

If you are one a one year cruise and then you are going to sell the boat, you can afford a bigger catamaran because your expenses will proportional to the size of the boat.

Our circumnavigation lasted eleven years, and 39 feet was an affordable size yacht for a long circumnavigation.

I am sticking with my 39 because it is big enough, and most importantly, I can single hand the boat when necessary without any problem. Sail area and on board systems are easily managed by a singlehanded sailor.

Although there may be several adults on board, the vast majority of the time, the boat is being sailed by one person. We essentially singlehanded our way around the world with a crew of four.

39 feet worked well for us, and it was affordable.

[Thalas]

There are quite a few Vlogs that show the Helia 44 to be an exceptional boat for your needs. The upside to high production cats is that most of the kinks are worked out (well... relative to other boats anyway) and you tend to encounter more people who have fixed the exact problem you are trying to fix in the particular circumstances of your boat.

I was kind of against the Leopard 45 after reading concerns about the forward cockpit potentially collecting water in rough weather, but reading more, I can't find any real world examples so now I'm looking at that boat more closely again. The boat looks very family friendly and while I am partial to FP, I highly recommend you get on board one of these to get a feel if it's a contender for you.

My vote would be a showdown between those two.

[SVPP]

I would go for a Catana 42 infusion. The 4 cabin is less money than the 3 cabin version as most of the 4 cabins are ex charter boats. So in your case that is great news.

They aren't too heavy or too light.

The boats are excellent quality and most are still very good after their charter contract. I had a newish 42 for three years. It was better than great. It was a very safe/seaworthy boat. We sold it to buy the 47.

The best way to reduce the weight that four people might choose to have onboard is to take less stuff. Don't go for all the nic naps that some do. Leave the unnecessary duplicate items and don't fit systems that will breakdown, oversize generators, dishwashers, ACs High Capacity Water makers etc. you will just end up having to continually fix them. All cats in this size range will perform poorly if excessive weight takes over.

Keep her simple.

Do stock up on this though: heaps of anchor chain. Also have a good set of davits so you can carry a reasonable size dinghy.

A depreciated C42 will likely hold its value for a number years over most other brands. You won't make money but you will be in a better place when it comes to sell it (and you decide to buy the 47). When I sold my boat I had two parties wanting it and got the asking price quickly (which was exactly what I paid for it years before).

View the fact that your new 42 is faster and sails better to wind as a bonus. Trust me, later this will become important.

The distance between the nacelle and the water is critical. Boats that slam in moderate conditions aren't fun.

The Catana 471 is a great boat also but hard to get a good one for your budget.

Remember performance can be a good safety attribute. I won't mention other brands but some of the boat show cats that seem like they would be very nice to live on aren't that safe or comfortable at sea. They are slow, have no bridge deck clearance, and many deck and structural fittings are not up to the task.

[catsketcher]

Hello Summer

I will be a different voice from most of the posters here.

The most flexible part of this equation is you and your family. I have met families of 8 in a 30ft trimaran (they were not having too much fun) and many different families on different sized boats. Our family of four had heaps of fun cruising Australia for 3 years on a modest 38ft cat.

Personally I would run screaming before I got a bigger boat, the costs for me are too high. I built my boat too so the idea of getting an expensive and heavy boat which doesn't sail as well as a cheaper and less commodious boat is not a fit I can deal with.

On this forum you will find a lot of pretty rich sailors who will tell you to buy big and buy pricey. You could find a nice Searunner tri and save huge amounts of money. You could look for something smaller, older and less worry than the typical cat in this thread. You don't need to have cabins for each kid.

Our boys shared a cabin because they wanted to. We liked each other when cruising and liked hanging out together. I don't get the need for people to get consumerist in the very vehicle that can teach you how little you really need to live at one with the world.

You may use the opportunity of cruising to teach yourself and your family that your needs are really desires and often dictated by peer pressure and advertising. People used to circumnavigate in 25ft Tophats. 2 groups of friends circled the world, one in a 32ft cat the others in a 34ft cat. You can sign up to the consumerist groupthink if you want but you don't need bling and shiny expensive cats to get out sailing. You certainly don't need cabins for each kid - they will be happy if you jump in the water with them and let them bring their sandy shorts inside without shouting. Consider how kids relate to the sea before you get a shiny palace they cannot bring smelly shells and old wooden finds inside to show you. How will they do art and craft in the pristine interior? How will you have a good trip?

Get a boat kids can be kids on and the trip will be great.

cheers

Phil

[Catapault]

Originally Posted by Sapperdeflap

3 vs 4 cabins was one of the major questions we had to decide on.

With all respect to Jeannius' advice on 3/4 berths: we chartered a 4 cabin version. I don't fall in to the category small (1m96, 125kg) and found the toilet so narrow and small on the 4 cabins version, the week of chartering made it very easy to decide for the owner's version. Like I said, everyone uses their boat different and has other standards. Proof of the pudding is in the eating.

This was one of the reasons we went with a 3 Cabin 450 F.
I'm 1m93 and a few more KG :P The owners hull is very very nice for comfort, with massive storage, and IMO actually more space efficient than the 4 Cabin. (I don't need 4 heads).

Our config is setup for 2 of us, no kids, BUT we required 'guest space', so with the Pt Aft berth for guests, and pt Fwd as workshop / storage / office it works well so far.

Caveat. We've moved aboard only 2 weeks ago, so limited practical experience, but we LOVE it so far.

Regards

[Catapault]

Originally Posted by 0224scalpel

Hi there dreamers ..cats are total money drainers...please just buy a house for your family . In 2 years time ..boat size is to big over 40 foot its a running weekly bill if 400 dollars just maintenence. Okay .i too did wait years with family . Research too .lived on board to ..ended buying a beach front land in philippines .building a house as we speak. Live aboard .on a cat .gosh the daily water supply the toilet issues..solar generators changing of sails oh thats 10.000 dollars .list goes on .they say the best part in owning a boat . Is the day your buy the boat . And the day your sell the boat happy dreaming ..but please get a reality check first

How incredibly NOT usefull to the OP... Just love it when people think they know someone elses circumstances or desires...

[Catapault]

Originally Posted by Thalas

There are quite a few Vlogs that show the Helia 44 to be an exceptional boat for your needs. The upside to high production cats is that most of the kinks are worked out (well... relative to other boats anyway) and you tend to encounter more people who have fixed the exact problem you are trying to fix in the particular circumstances of your boat.

I was kind of against the Leopard 45 after reading concerns about the forward cockpit potentially collecting water in rough weather, but reading more, I can't find any real world examples so now I'm looking at that boat more closely again. The boat looks very family friendly and while I am partial to FP, I highly recommend you get on board one of these to get a feel if it's a contender for you.

My vote would be a showdown between those two.

Our experience / oppinion: (for what its worth)

I'm berthed next to a Hellia 44 and a Lipari 41 right now. The 44 does look very nice. (Though the FP Saya 57on the other side of the wharf looks Awesome ! ) I'd say the Hellia 44, Lagoon 450 F and Leopard 45 are all 'similar' for size and features for the long range cruiser with a family and if affordable, make the 'ideal' boat in my humble opinion.

IMO, A 44-46 ft cat is the right size combination of 'not too big, not too small', giving a full size galley, nice lounge, 3 (or 4 ) decent cabins, plus storage space to put all the 'stuff' a family needs.

We ultimately decided on a Lagoon 450F as we just liked it more, and was cheaper than the Hellia by a chunk. (Note: We started our looking with a 380).

We were about a hairsbreath away from pulling trigger on a new Lagoon 42, but after finally getting an inspection on one, decided it was not for us. The No 1 killer was storage space, especially in the Kitchen and Salon areas.

Whilst we don't have children on this trip, we will have a regular guest, plus this is now our Home. It is the beachfront property, we just get to try a new beach every few days / weeks. To that end it had to contain all our hobbies, photo stuff and a few other things that we desire. (Need, maybe not, want, yes).

Some Key points on our decision which may help you..

- Single handleable. the 450, or similar sizes are about the largest boat I'm comfortable single handling, (or that my wife can), in an emergency. You are effectively single handling whenever on watch anyway, so it has to be rigged accordingly, and not to big as to become unmanageable.
One of my checks on this is, can it be reefed and/or sails dropped, single handed, safely. Once sail handling requires more than 1 person, the answer is no. You CAN rig a larger boat to be singled, sure, but it starts becoming more dangerous. Square top main with a large roach on a big cat has a lot of power and gets very heavy, very fast.

- Storage. Lots of, inc areas convertible to office / workshop. the V-Berth on the 450's is ideal for this (where i'm sitting right now), after taking to it with a powersaw.

- Felt right. This is totally un-quantifiable and personal. The boat had to FEEL right to both of us. Things like, sitting around felt pleasant, not living in a cave. (some of the leopard bunk areas turned us off on this one as example), easy to move around, easy to see ourselves 'living' here, as our HOME.

- Creature comforts, or ability to have them. - This one has sparked more forum wars here than many others but, we wanted....
TV (decent size), Washing Machine, Watermaker, some kitchen electric appliances, Dive compressor, etc.

- Crosses Oceans. Our desire it to take it from Turkey (purchase location) back to Australia over a few years.

For us, Lagoon 450 F 3 Cabin was our dream boat, and many others were looked at as we thought it was out of reach. Turned out not to be, and so far we are VERY happy with our choice. We bought a second hand 2011 version.

HUGE CAVEAT: We've owned it for 6 weeks, and lived-aboard for 2 weeks, so we are at the start of this journey, The above is based on our desires to start. Not on experience yet of having done it.

Hope this helps..

Regards

[akprb]

Originally Posted by catsketcher

Hello Summer

I will be a different voice from most of the posters here.

The most flexible part of this equation is you and your family. I have met families of 8 in a 30ft trimaran (they were not having too much fun) and many different families on different sized boats. Our family of four had heaps of fun cruising Australia for 3 years on a modest 38ft cat.

Personally I would run screaming before I got a bigger boat, the costs for me are too high. I built my boat too so the idea of getting an expensive and heavy boat which doesn't sail as well as a cheaper and less commodious boat is not a fit I can deal with.

On this forum you will find a lot of pretty rich sailors who will tell you to buy big and buy pricey. You could find a nice Searunner tri and save huge amounts of money. You could look for something smaller, older and less worry than the typical cat in this thread. You don't need to have cabins for each kid.

Our boys shared a cabin because they wanted to. We liked each other when cruising and liked hanging out together. I don't get the need for people to get consumerist in the very vehicle that can teach you how little you really need to live at one with the world.

You may use the opportunity of cruising to teach yourself and your family that your needs are really desires and often dictated by peer pressure and advertising. People used to circumnavigate in 25ft Tophats. 2 groups of friends circled the world, one in a 32ft cat the others in a 34ft cat. You can sign up to the consumerist groupthink if you want but you don't need bling and shiny expensive cats to get out sailing. You certainly don't need cabins for each kid - they will be happy if you jump in the water with them and let them bring their sandy shorts inside without shouting. Consider how kids relate to the sea before you get a shiny palace they cannot bring smelly shells and old wooden finds inside to show you. How will they do art and craft in the pristine interior? How will you have a good trip?

Get a boat kids can be kids on and the trip will be great.

cheers

Phil

Catsketcher makes a VERY GOOD POINT HERE. (and I'm one of the "buy as much waterline as you can afford crowd, of course that might mean 38') :-)

The point is kids coming inside with sand, sea and salt. A boat has be be livable and a "palace" is not fun for anyone. A family boat needs to be tidy yet dentable. I'll leave it at that, you get the idea.

Good point!

[Richwink]

Hi
For 2014, we sailed a year in the Bahamas, Cuba and the Keys on a shoal draft Beneteau 393 3 cabin. We have three boys they were aged 8, 6 and 3 when we left. The Beneteau was great the 5 foot draft was a saving grace and we were comfortable. The 3rd stateroom was part storage and part bedroom for the youngest. The older two shared and most of the time it was fine. Now if we were to head out we would want each child to have their own space so we would lean toward a 40 ft max catamaran.

The 10% of purchase price rule for maintenance more or less held for us. Our boat was right around 100k.

As for crossing oceans - the boat is ALWAYS stronger than the crew. Do your inspections bring some parts, wait for good weather window and untie the doc lines.

When we got back to the US we had originally intended to keep cruising but were going to switch to a catamaran because we hated rolling and walking on the curtains.

Richard
Exceeding the Drift | Your life is an occasion, rise to it.

[JonCharles66]

New member but getting up to speed on some really great posts at this website. I have a similar situation to several posters. Soon to retire early, want to live on board with family of 4. Wife and I grew up sailing, of course monohulls of 1970s and 1980s. Slow to the cat transition and looking at 45 ft new monohulls, but disappointed in lack of significant manufacturers.

It simply appears the cat has more room, more amenities, better layout, more windows, and completely protected cockpit. Of course, comes with a slightly higher price tag. There are significant benefits of a cat vs. monohull. Related to this discussion, are we really seeing the slow death on the monohull as a live-on family boat?