Leopard 46 V FP 48 - Page 3

Gludy · 09-07-2008, 05:33

What is this Kite Tamer mention for furling a spinnaker?

Seems that everyone is getting into building a sailing cat - soon there will be more builders than customers!! :-)

ldrhawke · 09-07-2008, 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastcat435

A Atlantic is a nice boat but hardly the boat for a couple that starts sailing now and want a single handed sailor more likely 3 or 4 people are needed to sail these sailing machines well
or a very experienced couple .

Regards

Have to disagree, the Atlantic 57'; with it's forward cockpit arrangement, would be a great and a very safe boat to short handed sail. And, there is nothing better than more waterline to make a boat perform well. This write up by Chris White on a 57's shakedown cruise, and his comparisons of the speed of some race boats, compared to the Atlantic 57', is a good read. In Chris's case I believe his unflowered average speeds. Atlantic 57' shakedown sail

cat480 · 09-07-2008, 09:41

Gideon, what brand sheet winches do you prefer? Thanks, Tim

fastcat435 · 21-07-2008, 08:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by cat460

Gideon, what brand sheet winches do you prefer? Thanks, Tim

]

Hallo Tim

Standard we use the Holmatro Racing winches
2 x 44 ST
2 x 54 ST and one x 48 st electric
optionally we use Harken Carbo winches
Both have the same very low weight and do not eat your lines and have excellent quality
The reason sometimes the Harken winches are preferred is the international exposure.
All our winches are oversized.
Greetings

Gideon

sandy daugherty · 21-07-2008, 09:28

Gludy: I think you now have a very good set of criteria. I also think you have absorbed a lot of the practicalities expressed here. You are looking at a million dollars new, and at that price you can expect a lot of responsiveness from the builder. I doubt that any of the high production builders will meet your expectations, but most of the high performance builders could accomodate your creature comfort list, when you decide where to draw the line between luxury and speed. At this level of investment, I would urge you to bareboat cruise as many different boats as possible and build your own database of likes and dislikes. Unfortunately, there are few performance cats available on charter; you are most likely to see the same old fixed-shoal-keel-short-rigged bloatomaran with four heads and simple sail handling where ever you go.

And distrust anything you here from a salesman if his lips are moving.

ldrhawke · 21-07-2008, 09:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandy daugherty

................

And distrust anything you here from a salesman if his lips are moving.

OR....if they end their blog with Greetings...

Gludy · 21-07-2008, 11:10

Sandy
What is actually happening is that I am modifying my requirements as I gain knowledge. For example, I have lowered my planned VMG to 7 or 8 knots, not the ten I started with.

As I try out the different boats this month, no doubt my specs will modify and adjust.

Scott730 · 23-07-2008, 11:22

I have sailed the leopard 46 from Road Town BVI to Miami for a delivery last December.
I own a F-P Mahe 36 and have sailed the 40' as well( no experience with the 48').
On the delivery of the leopard, myself and one other made the trip, the boat is easy to handle with 2 people, we made the trip in 6.5 days ( I consider this very fast for this boat) we had a following sea with the wind primarily from the southeast giving us a nice reach the whole way. We hit very heavy weather 3 nights in a row (rain squalls with winds in the high 20's to low 30's and seas hitting 8 to 10 foot swells) boat performed well in those conditions. What I didn't like was the mast height is 70 feet and because of the helm, the boom is very high up the mast, it was not well balanced and we had to constantly trim to maintain course.
Fit and finish was average and what I'd expect from a factory built boat. Had all the bells and whistles and I could easily live aboard this boat.
The FP's fit and finish is about the same, however, I find the FP's faster and lighter than the leopard and very easy to sail as well. I also think there is a fairly large price difference between the Leopard and the FP with the FP beginning less expensive. The Leopard I delivered was $810,000 U.S. last year, a lot of money.

Gludy · 23-07-2008, 11:29

Thanks for that info Scott.

What speeds do you the Leopard 46 can manage in light winds of say 15 knots at the different sailing points?

Scott730 · 23-07-2008, 11:55

Gludy
All Cat's do better on a reach with winds at 120 degree probably the optimium angle. This was what I had on the average, I'd say the winds were always in the mid to upper teens with 1.5 day of motoring out of the 6.5 day at sea. I'd guess we averaged 8.5 to 9 knots, don't have the exact mileage but I'd guess 1300 to 1400 nm's. When the wind was really blowing, with 2 rif points taken in and the headsail out 35% I saw speeds of low to mid teens. But this is not the norm. I'd expect ave. speed for this boat in the 7 to 8 knot range with 15 knot winds.

BigCat · 23-07-2008, 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott730

Gludy
All Cat's do better on a reach with winds at 120 degree probably the optimium angle. This was what I had on the average, I'd say the winds were always in the mid to upper teens with 1.5 day of motoring out of the 6.5 day at sea. I'd guess we averaged 8.5 to 9 knots, don't have the exact mileage but I'd guess 1300 to 1400 nm's. When the wind was really blowing, with 2 rif points taken in and the headsail out 35% I saw speeds of low to mid teens. But this is not the norm. I'd expect ave. speed for this boat in the 7 to 8 knot range with 15 knot winds.

Hi, Scott - Was the wind on your starboard quarter at about 15 knots, as would be typical for that voyage? I'd say you made excellent time.

Scott730 · 23-07-2008, 12:58

BigCat
That is exactly where the wind was. We made great time, but sharing 2 hour shifts for those 6.5 days and with the weather we had, the trip wasn't easy. I said the boat could be easily handled by 2, but the next time I make the trip, there will be one more on hand.

BigCat · 23-07-2008, 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott730

BigCat
That is exactly where the wind was. We made great time, but sharing 2 hour shifts for those 6.5 days and with the weather we had, the trip wasn't easy. I said the boat could be easily handled by 2, but the next time I make the trip, there will be one more on hand.

Yes, it is one thing to sail a sloop on a nice Sunday afternoon, between a marina and the evening's anchorage, and another thing to sail one in blue water, at all hours and in all weather, day after day. I will never voyage in a marconi sloop again, though I don't mind weekend sailing in one.

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09-07-2008, 05:33	#31
Gludy Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Brecon, Wales Boat: St Francis 50 on order Posts: 269	What is this Kite Tamer mention for furling a spinnaker? Seems that everyone is getting into building a sailing cat - soon there will be more builders than customers!! :-)

09-07-2008, 09:41	#33
cat480 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 18	Gideon, what brand sheet winches do you prefer? Thanks, Tim

21-07-2008, 09:28	#35
sandy daugherty Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: near Annapolis Boat: PDQ 36 "Page 83" Posts: 403	Gludy: I think you now have a very good set of criteria. I also think you have absorbed a lot of the practicalities expressed here. You are looking at a million dollars new, and at that price you can expect a lot of responsiveness from the builder. I doubt that any of the high production builders will meet your expectations, but most of the high performance builders could accomodate your creature comfort list, when you decide where to draw the line between luxury and speed. At this level of investment, I would urge you to bareboat cruise as many different boats as possible and build your own database of likes and dislikes. Unfortunately, there are few performance cats available on charter; you are most likely to see the same old fixed-shoal-keel-short-rigged bloatomaran with four heads and simple sail handling where ever you go. And distrust anything you here from a salesman if his lips are moving.

21-07-2008, 11:10	#37
Gludy Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Brecon, Wales Boat: St Francis 50 on order Posts: 269	Sandy What is actually happening is that I am modifying my requirements as I gain knowledge. For example, I have lowered my planned VMG to 7 or 8 knots, not the ten I started with. As I try out the different boats this month, no doubt my specs will modify and adjust.

23-07-2008, 11:22	#38
Scott730 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mt Dora Florida Boat: FP, Mahe, 36' Posts: 70	I have sailed the leopard 46 from Road Town BVI to Miami for a delivery last December. I own a F-P Mahe 36 and have sailed the 40' as well( no experience with the 48'). On the delivery of the leopard, myself and one other made the trip, the boat is easy to handle with 2 people, we made the trip in 6.5 days ( I consider this very fast for this boat) we had a following sea with the wind primarily from the southeast giving us a nice reach the whole way. We hit very heavy weather 3 nights in a row (rain squalls with winds in the high 20's to low 30's and seas hitting 8 to 10 foot swells) boat performed well in those conditions. What I didn't like was the mast height is 70 feet and because of the helm, the boom is very high up the mast, it was not well balanced and we had to constantly trim to maintain course. Fit and finish was average and what I'd expect from a factory built boat. Had all the bells and whistles and I could easily live aboard this boat. The FP's fit and finish is about the same, however, I find the FP's faster and lighter than the leopard and very easy to sail as well. I also think there is a fairly large price difference between the Leopard and the FP with the FP beginning less expensive. The Leopard I delivered was $810,000 U.S. last year, a lot of money.

23-07-2008, 11:29	#39
Gludy Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Brecon, Wales Boat: St Francis 50 on order Posts: 269	Thanks for that info Scott. What speeds do you the Leopard 46 can manage in light winds of say 15 knots at the different sailing points?

23-07-2008, 11:55	#40
Scott730 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mt Dora Florida Boat: FP, Mahe, 36' Posts: 70	Gludy All Cat's do better on a reach with winds at 120 degree probably the optimium angle. This was what I had on the average, I'd say the winds were always in the mid to upper teens with 1.5 day of motoring out of the 6.5 day at sea. I'd guess we averaged 8.5 to 9 knots, don't have the exact mileage but I'd guess 1300 to 1400 nm's. When the wind was really blowing, with 2 rif points taken in and the headsail out 35% I saw speeds of low to mid teens. But this is not the norm. I'd expect ave. speed for this boat in the 7 to 8 knot range with 15 knot winds.

23-07-2008, 12:58	#42
Scott730 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mt Dora Florida Boat: FP, Mahe, 36' Posts: 70	BigCat That is exactly where the wind was. We made great time, but sharing 2 hour shifts for those 6.5 days and with the weather we had, the trip wasn't easy. I said the boat could be easily handled by 2, but the next time I make the trip, there will be one more on hand.