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Old 31-12-2015, 16:28   #1
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largest payload / displacement 39-55+ft used multihull: cross, etc for cargo/work

Looking for specs and info or pretty much any input about payload, and/or displacement of some of the older (somewhat more affordable) design multihulls, like cross, csk, possibly wharram, horstman, etc.

Anything with wider hulls and STURDY/HEAVY BUILD but hopefully still able to tack and sail to windward (if it didn't sail to windward fully loaded, that would be a compromise we would be willing to make).....

The ideal boat for this would be designed with 2 waterlines, one loaded and one unloaded, but still built to handle/sail at both... Pretty sure this doesn't exist on the used market, so I am wanting input on what the next best thing would be.

Pilothouse and or center cockpit arrangement seem to be most conductive to locating the cargo/hold area in the center of the boat, but with these older boats, a full refit will be needed anyways, so any layout will be ok...


I've always loved trimarans but obviously the cat will have more potential for load carrying ability. But also more challenges as for layout, especially under 45ft where the bridgedeck just ends up too boxy.


Ok now the tricky part, I'm hoping for 6,000 lbs of additional payload, on top of the minimalist basics for 2-3 people (~2,000lbs).
Twice that, or more (12-20,000lbs) would be much better.

I believe this could give the the boat potential as a productive cargo/work/research or fish boat. "That" designed by Jim Brown would have been an excellent example, with a 20ft central workshop area, but it has been neglected and then rebuilt too heavy for the charter trade in guatemala.


There are relevant posts on the "overloaded trimarans" discussions here and here. And the "commercial fishing trimaran/sailboat" discussion here and here sailboat for anyone who is interested in the subject.

As for monohulls, the skookum 47 and 53 were sometimes built with a hold that I've seen listed to hold 20,000 lbs, and a few examples of the bottom liner 44 were built by csy with a (listed 4,000lb) hold I believe. In there west coast tuna fishery, and ak salmon troll fishery there are a few other examples of large heavy displacement sailboats that were either purpose built or converted to have a fish hold.


Now as far as trimaran and catamaran payload goes, many designs/designers don't really list payload, but if displacement is listed, that would help us do the research to find out actual carrying capacity.

Please share any relevant information or thoughts that you have. Thank you
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Old 31-12-2015, 18:08   #2
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Re: largest payload / displacement 39-55+ft used multihull: cross, etc for cargo/work

For cargo carrying capacity I think you're on the wrong track to consider a multihull. Look at today's shipping industry who have huge incentives to maximize efficiency >> do you see any multihulls? Scale this down to smaller 39-55 foot lengths and I think the physics still apply. For fast, light weight cargo carrying - passengers - multihulls can be competitive. But for bulk, no contest, it appears. JMHO

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Old 31-12-2015, 19:08   #3
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Re: largest payload / displacement 39-55+ft used multihull: cross, etc for cargo/work

The things that make multihulls great cruising vessels make them lousy cargo vessels.

If you build a cat that holds a lot of cargo, expect it to be slow and sail like a pig.
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Old 31-12-2015, 20:02   #4
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Re: largest payload / displacement 39-55+ft used multihull: cross, etc for cargo/work

Actually modern high speed ferries are catamarans these days, but massively powered !
In older designs with payload I'd be looking at Kelsall cats.
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Old 31-12-2015, 20:33   #5
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Re: largest payload / displacement 39-55+ft used multihull: cross, etc for cargo/work

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Originally Posted by Redreuben View Post
Actually modern high speed ferries are catamarans these days, but massively powered !
In older designs with payload I'd be looking at Kelsall cats.
For their size, catamaran ferries are very light duty. They are mostly about speed for passenger not cargo. A similarly sized mono ferry will carry far more cargo.
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Old 31-12-2015, 22:06   #6
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Re: largest payload / displacement 39-55+ft used multihull: cross, etc for cargo/work

There was a guy who used to use a big Wharram as a cargo freighter. Even to carry household refrigerators & the like.

As far as "converting" designs to such a task, I'd imagine that the larger Wharrams would be some of the easiest boats to do this to. Given that everything on them which isn't actually built into the hulls, are essentially just modular pods, on the decks. And even the "cabins" are modular/convertible on many of the designs.

Plus, if you want the loading numbers, all of that info is available, gratis, on the website. Though such is the case with most any designer's website. And in addition to the Wharrams, there are plenty of open bridgedeck cats with enough deck space to handle cargo.
That, & many, many, of the multihull designers out there, have lots of "commercial" designs, for 3rd world useages, which aren't displayed on their websites.


What is it that you have in mind along these lines, anyway?
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Old 01-01-2016, 11:01   #7
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Re: largest payload / displacement 39-55+ft used multihull: cross, etc for cargo/work

Quote:
Originally Posted by purvisgs View Post
Looking for specs and info or pretty much any input about payload, and/or displacement of some of the older (somewhat more affordable) design multihulls, like cross, csk, possibly wharram, horstman, etc.

Anything with wider hulls and STURDY/HEAVY BUILD but hopefully still able to tack and sail to windward (if it didn't sail to windward fully loaded, that would be a compromise we would be willing to make).....

The ideal boat for this would be designed with 2 waterlines, one loaded and one unloaded, but still built to handle/sail at both... Pretty sure this doesn't exist on the used market, so I am wanting input on what the next best thing would be.

Pilothouse and or center cockpit arrangement seem to be most conductive to locating the cargo/hold area in the center of the boat, but with these older boats, a full refit will be needed anyways, so any layout will be ok...


I've always loved trimarans but obviously the cat will have more potential for load carrying ability. But also more challenges as for layout, especially under 45ft where the bridgedeck just ends up too boxy.


Ok now the tricky part, I'm hoping for 6,000 lbs of additional payload, on top of the minimalist basics for 2-3 people (~2,000lbs).
Twice that, or more (12-20,000lbs) would be much better.

I believe this could give the the boat potential as a productive cargo/work/research or fish boat. "That" designed by Jim Brown would have been an excellent example, with a 20ft central workshop area, but it has been neglected and then rebuilt too heavy for the charter trade in guatemala.


There are relevant posts on the "overloaded trimarans" discussions here and here. And the "commercial fishing trimaran/sailboat" discussion here and here sailboat for anyone who is interested in the subject.

As for monohulls, the skookum 47 and 53 were sometimes built with a hold that I've seen listed to hold 20,000 lbs, and a few examples of the bottom liner 44 were built by csy with a (listed 4,000lb) hold I believe. In there west coast tuna fishery, and ak salmon troll fishery there are a few other examples of large heavy displacement sailboats that were either purpose built or converted to have a fish hold.


Now as far as trimaran and catamaran payload goes, many designs/designers don't really list payload, but if displacement is listed, that would help us do the research to find out actual carrying capacity.

Please share any relevant information or thoughts that you have. Thank you
Kilos as additional load?
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Old 01-01-2016, 11:24   #8
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Re: largest payload / displacement 39-55+ft used multihull: cross, etc for cargo/work

Cadence, you cracking me up, mon!
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Old 01-01-2016, 11:33   #9
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Re: largest payload / displacement 39-55+ft used multihull: cross, etc for cargo/work

Purvis, you know it is a matter of point of view. If you take a small cat or small tri you can alter their sailing characteristics by just adding a couple of hundred pounds. A large tri like a Horstman or Cross in the 50 foot range could really put a load on...but nothing like 20k lbs.


Don't forget that hauling stuff is closely scrutinized by Homeland, Coast Guard, and harbor police. Licenses required or slammer time...the reason you don't see multihulls pressed into this type of service is because it is not financially favorable.


I remember 20 years ago people were actually trying to use multihulls for commercial fishing. Don't see that now very often because it was just not financially competitive with proper fishing vessels.


Plenty of big tris and cats available. You should understand that they were not manufactured to be 'haulers'. Do not know how they would handle the stresses of large payloads in heavy seas. Yes, they are beefier than small cats and tris but that is all relative once you get in a pitching seaway.


Be careful my friend..
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Old 01-01-2016, 11:55   #10
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Re: largest payload / displacement 39-55+ft used multihull: cross, etc for cargo/work

2000 Topper Hermanson Island Cargo design Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 01-01-2016, 12:12   #11
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Re: largest payload / displacement 39-55+ft used multihull: cross, etc for cargo/work

Tom Colvin designed a number of sail boats for cargo/fishing work.

Cargo Fishing Schooners

fishing schooners

Shoal draft

I would also look to Jay Benford.

Perhaps not the best choice, but I think he has a sensitivity and acumen to displacement and practical boating. See his notes at the bottom of the table on the linked page below.

Benford Design Group

We have a 44', 40,000lb center cockpit. We have a deep bilge areas that could be used for some bulk cargo with out giving up the interior. Not fish. With a crew of 2 we could easily give up the aft cabin to cargo.

I think you also need to talk about what you are trying to haul. Rice and wood may weigh the same , but the rice sacks can be stored in places 12' stalks of lumber will never fit.
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Old 01-01-2016, 12:28   #12
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Re: largest payload / displacement 39-55+ft used multihull: cross, etc for cargo/work

This shows the 12 m scale model of a 60m cargo proa, carrying for the test 2.5 tons of gravel.
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Old 01-01-2016, 13:33   #13
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Re: largest payload / displacement 39-55+ft used multihull: cross, etc for cargo/work

The advantage could be rigging the boom as a crane for self loading/unloading and two hull stability against rolling. Avoiding stevedores makes chance for commercial use. But,not on strictly controlled market and not for any cargo
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Old 02-01-2016, 09:33   #14
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Re: largest payload / displacement 39-55+ft used multihull: cross, etc for cargo/work

This is an old youtube video of Zakat, which used to do day charters out of Knysna, South Africa. The hull design is the Hitchhiker 40'. The hulls have a lot of flare above the waterline.
I am not sure why you want to get into the charter trade in Guatemala, but Thumbs Up, (I have renamed her) is currently on the hard at Nanajuana in Rio Dulce (closest boat to the haulout basin ramp). I will have her back in the water by the middle of February. Go have a look. She is not currently for sale but I am considering listing her later this year. Powered by twin Volvo 2030's, sails are worn but functional. 25' beam, could be what you are looking for, let me know.
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Old 03-01-2016, 06:11   #15
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Re: largest payload / displacement 39-55+ft used multihull: cross, etc for cargo/work

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Originally Posted by lucdekeyser View Post
This shows the 12 m scale model of a 60m cargo proa, carrying for the test 2.5 tons of gravel.
Looks like a 39' boat with zero accomodations and load capacity of 2.5 tons when the original design spec called for a minimum of 4 tons and a perfered capacity of 7-11 tons plus presumably some reasonable amount of living accomodation.

I'm not anti-multihull but I do accept thier limitations. Multihulls are just not well suited to heavy duty cargo transport.
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