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Old 16-09-2017, 04:54   #61
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Re: Large Catamaran Flips In Sydney

what i find disappointing that races for monos and cats happen mostly in protected waters. why is not open sea used to find who is the best? Bays can be used to visit neighbour and maybe catch a small fish. open sea is the only way to get really somewhere and that are the only skills that should be valued.

racers please explain!
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Old 16-09-2017, 04:57   #62
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Re: Large Catamaran Flips In Sydney

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan View Post
YER YER .

You can't just wheel out the old excuse , they were racing so look what happened when it suits you.

A similar sized cat capsized on a daysail in Hobart a while back so what are you going to say in that case? Let me guess. If they had been racing they would have been more vigilant.

What about the two big Chris White cats that flipped on cruises in recent times?

Cats CAPSIZE.

The more performance orientated they are the more chance they have of capsizing.
Its as simple as that.
Sure , a vigilant crew can keep them upright most of the time, but eventually its gonna happen.

You can't have it both ways.

Plan for it with escape hatches, High Vis underwing paint and safe inverted survival spots built in.



If you want a performance catamaran , light with a decent sail area, then the chances of it falling over are going to be higher, whether racing or cruising.
So how many times have you capsized your boat? What design is it by the way?
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Old 16-09-2017, 05:39   #63
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Re: Large Catamaran Flips In Sydney

Ah Mr C, long time no see.

It will be interesting to see how Bob Oram responds to this unfortunate incident.

Maybe something along the lines of the typical Chris White "post capsize" essays would be helpful to Oram owners and multihull sailors in general, or will he follow your lead and lie low or change the subject.

Helpful information would include things like number of crew, designated jobs, mainsheet/traveller equipment and arrangement, weather conditions and sail selection etc etc.

Comments on Bob Orams website that a fully loaded 44 can average around 10 knots VMG with the wind at 28 -30 right on the nose does nothing to inject reality into the discussion.

Maybe he means "close hauled". Right on the nose BS.

SEE https://www.boboramdesign.com/44c

“We sailed from Chagos to Rodriguez 1050 miles in 4 days 8 hours in very rough conditions blowing 28-30 knots right on the nose with waves and spray regularly going over the top
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Old 16-09-2017, 06:10   #64
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Re: Large Catamaran Flips In Sydney

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan View Post
It will be interesting to see how Bob Oram responds to this unfortunate incident.
Given Bob has retired probably not much response, given he has little time for dreamers and keyboard warriors, not much response. Given that he has a track record and you have no demonstrable Cat experience in any design, why would he anyway. And hers an idea, how about we wait for more facts before offering ill-informed opinions. Call me old fashioned but I like to work from an evidence base
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Old 16-09-2017, 07:17   #65
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Re: Large Catamaran Flips In Sydney

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Originally Posted by PaulinOz View Post
If the scope is 1:1 and there is a 3 to 4 meter storm surge this will apply an enormous upward pull on the mooring anchor. Especially if the both bows are now 2 to 3 meter bellow the surface.
Oops, I meant to describe a scope that results in a rode with a 45 degree angle.

My mentioning rode scope and resulting downward pull was just a thought exercise. It was not meat as a disparaging comment toward multihulls.

Sorry, if I offended anyone.

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Old 16-09-2017, 08:08   #66
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Re: Large Catamaran Flips In Sydney

Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
what i find disappointing that races for monos and cats happen mostly in protected waters. why is not open sea used to find who is the best? Bays can be used to visit neighbour and maybe catch a small fish. open sea is the only way to get really somewhere and that are the only skills that should be valued.

racers please explain!
To me it is quite simple , there are two types of racing around the buoys and offshore and each requires a different skill set .
Also requirements are different for each type of race . The around the buoy races need markers to be dropped in different locations and easily moved in case of wind shifts you also be able to anchor a committee boat . This eliminates most areas over About 60 feet some people my do it in deeper water but you get my point.
The around the buoy racer may not be a great offshore racer and visa versa.one is looking for minute shifts in the wind and the other wants to get in front of the cold front . Intimate knowledge of the rules of the road is more critical for one than the other ( in a general sense ) .
An inshore racer may be better at boat handling in close quarters and the offshore sailor can handle big stories at sea with aplomb.
Two types of sailors ,boats and skills . All fun though
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Old 16-09-2017, 13:39   #67
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Re: Large Catamaran Flips In Sydney

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan View Post
Ah Mr C, long time no see.

It will be interesting to see how Bob Oram responds to this unfortunate incident.

Maybe something along the lines of the typical Chris White "post capsize" essays would be helpful to Oram owners and multihull sailors in general, or will he follow your lead and lie low or change the subject.

Helpful information would include things like number of crew, designated jobs, mainsheet/traveller equipment and arrangement, weather conditions and sail selection etc etc.

Comments on Bob Orams website that a fully loaded 44 can average around 10 knots VMG with the wind at 28 -30 right on the nose does nothing to inject reality into the discussion.

Maybe he means "close hauled". Right on the nose BS.

SEE https://www.boboramdesign.com/44c

We sailed from Chagos to Rodriguez 1050 miles in 4 days 8 hours in very rough conditions blowing 28-30 knots right on the nose with waves and spray regularly going over the top

How about you answer the questions. What designs of cats have you owned, and how often have you capsized them?

Your continued refusal to answer raises serious doubts about your honesty.
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Old 16-09-2017, 13:58   #68
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Re: Large Catamaran Flips In Sydney

First off any GOOD cat can flip over, second when you sail on the edge you are closer to God (make what you want of that) so, no one got hurt, they have a story to tell the rest of their lives and next time they know to watch the bend in the trees or dark spots on the water indicating fun is coming their way.
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Old 16-09-2017, 14:04   #69
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Re: Large Catamaran Flips In Sydney

Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
what i find disappointing that races for monos and cats happen mostly in protected waters. why is not open sea used to find who is the best? Bays can be used to visit neighbour and maybe catch a small fish. open sea is the only way to get really somewhere and that are the only skills that should be valued.

racers please explain!
Maybe club races but important ones are on open waters: Sydney -Hobart, Fastnet, Middle sea race, Giraglia not to mention the many transats and some trans pacific races.
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Old 16-09-2017, 17:39   #70
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Re: Large Catamaran Flips In Sydney

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First off any GOOD cat can flip over, second when you sail on the edge you are closer to God
Can I go cruising on a BAD cat that won't flip over, and remain an atheist?
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Old 16-09-2017, 18:31   #71
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Re: Large Catamaran Flips In Sydney

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Can I go cruising on a BAD cat that won't flip over, and remain an atheist?
Only if you pray for forgiveness!

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Old 16-09-2017, 18:54   #72
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Re: Large Catamaran Flips In Sydney

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Originally Posted by tuskie View Post
Can I go cruising on a BAD cat that won't flip over, and remain an atheist?
Only if we hold a Postal vote first.
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Old 16-09-2017, 19:34   #73
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Re: Large Catamaran Flips In Sydney

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Can I go cruising on a BAD cat that won't flip over, and remain an atheist?
Haven't you been paying attention to mr slug?

EVERY cat is always on the brink of capsize, every second. Obviously he's capsized hundreds of times. Although he's pretty vague on the details...
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Old 16-09-2017, 20:17   #74
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Re: Large Catamaran Flips In Sydney

Arsenal

There have been lots of races between monos and multis, from little ones like the Bay to Bay to offshore ones like the OSTARS.

From 1980 the transatlantic race run by the English OSTAR - most of these are to windward - has been won by multis. (A tri won in 1972 but a mono won in 76) In 1978 there was an amazing finish between a large expensive mono and a small cheaper tri - the tri won in a photo finish (for a transatlantic race of 97 seconds) (Olympus photo Rhut du Rhum). In the recent Fastnet the tris won by a long way. Every race where multis are allowed in they acquit themselves well - they set records around the world, singlehanded and crewed. Multis are proven great boats and often the first choice for the worlds best sailors. The races you seek have been run. Look up books on the OSTAR - Singlehanded is a great one. Look up "The Race", Twostar, Round Britain, Round Europe.

Sure as Seaslug says, cats can capsize - of course they can. Cats can also catch fire, get stranded on a beach, hit reefs, hit whales, get squashed by hurricanes, have people fall off and some can even sink when the through hulls fall off. But well cared for ones don't, or at least not very often. That is the distinction that some are trying to get through to those who are unwilling to listen. Cats can capsize but they have less chance to do so if you are a good and prudent sailor, if you watch the weather, if your reefing gear is good. Then the odds of capsize get so low that the other risks become more important. Navigation is probably the foremost worry for me.

Capsize is part of the variety of risks cats sailors face - but only one. Every cat sailor should take capsize seriously and then get on with using their boat prudently. I am happy for sailors to make different choices but to keep on bringing up old arguments when everyone else has moved threatens to become tedious.
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Old 16-09-2017, 21:01   #75
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Re: Large Catamaran Flips In Sydney

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Sure as Seaslug says, cats can capsize
Actually that's not what he's saying. He's saying every cat WILL capsize. "Eventually it's gonna happen."

So there is. You're going to capsize your boat, I'm going to capsize mine. Nothing we can do about it. The slug has spoken. Of course, there's a possibility he's just full of crap.

It might help his credibility if he'd list all the boats he's owned, and how often he capsized each of them..
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