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Old 17-11-2010, 03:55   #391
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but I'm becoming less and less a fan of Cats.
I'm just becoming less of a fan of speed freaks who flip their own cats over then blame the rest of the world.

This guy was a clown, imho, and he destroyed his own boat.
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Old 17-11-2010, 11:42   #392
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I'm just becoming less of a fan of speed freaks who flip their own cats over then blame the rest of the world. ...
We're still talking about "Anna"? I've been away for a bit so may have missed something, but I don't recall the skipper blaming the world for the loss. Indeed, he shared his thoughts and experiences knowing, presumably, that they might not reflect well on his actions. I thought that was generous, brave and helpful. Given where you are maybe you're thinking of the carnage in the multi 50 fleet or something?

Tom
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Old 17-11-2010, 11:48   #393
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Tom, I ddin't quite get it either (but then with MarkJ, that's often the case - lol). At least it was a good (and frankly, appreciated ) effort by a monohuller to get us away from the 'I don't like cats' refrain that preceded his post.

Brad
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Old 17-11-2010, 12:03   #394
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Old 18-11-2010, 09:38   #395
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Tom, I ddin't quite get it either (but then with MarkJ, that's often the case - lol). At least it was a good (and frankly, appreciated ) effort by a monohuller to get us away from the 'I don't like cats' refrain that preceded his post.

Brad
I didn't mean to offend anyone that owns a cat. I have been thinking about them for a while. I was even planning on building one. I made a 1/10th scale model of a Prout 50. They are gorgeous boats. I would love to own one, can't afford them. But having said that, and thinking it through, when they get into big winds ( correct me here if I'm off base ) wouldn't they have a tendancy to flip. Wind through the tunnel and all that? no leverage underneath. Just how much the beam offsets that I don't know since I'm not an engineer. Just musing. Not trying to start a multi vs mono war. I would love to have two boats. A cat for fair weather bopping around and a mono racer like a Newport, ( well 3 ) and a mono cruiser for travel.
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Old 18-11-2010, 10:05   #396
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Originally Posted by gpshephe View Post
I didn't mean to offend anyone that owns a cat. I have been thinking about them for a while. I was even planning on building one. I made a 1/10th scale model of a Prout 50. They are gorgeous boats. I would love to own one, can't afford them. But having said that, and thinking it through, when they get into big winds ( correct me here if I'm off base ) wouldn't they have a tendancy to flip. Wind through the tunnel and all that? no leverage underneath. Just how much the beam offsets that I don't know since I'm not an engineer. Just musing. Not trying to start a multi vs mono war. I would love to have two boats. A cat for fair weather bopping around and a mono racer like a Newport, ( well 3 ) and a mono cruiser for travel.
Yes, you are off base, particularly w/r/t most modern cruising cats.

Not to start thread drift, but....a Newport? For racing? Huh? How about a tri for racing like a Corsair/Farrier?

Fair Winds,
Mike
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Old 18-11-2010, 10:37   #397
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gpshepe, I didn't take offence - its just that this thread relates to the capsize of a particular boat in particular circumstances and an analysis of the same. The fact that you are "becoming less and less a fan of cats" doesn't advance the discussion one iota. You're not a fan - great. No one is asking you to be (and I am certainly not going to waste my time arguing why you should be).

On the other hand, the next time there is a thread concerning a monohull sinking, or foundering when its only rudder broke, or concerning rusted keel bolts, etc., I am also not going to post that "I am becoming less and less of a fan of monohulls". Make sense?

Brad
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Old 18-11-2010, 10:53   #398
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There was a mono that just sank. A Islander Freeport 36 sank in the S. pacific and went down in less than an hour. Good news is the capt. Was rescued which also means there is a news worthy story to be told this time!
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Old 18-11-2010, 12:01   #399
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The lessons I learned form this:

sails are cheaper than a boat

If you think the boat is in danger and you can't let the sails fly, head up into the wind until you once again have control of the boat.

Ok, those are the same lessons my college coach beat into me during my laser and 420 days. Then again in those days, I just got a bit wet when I didn't listen.
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Old 18-11-2010, 16:16   #400
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Khagan,

If you have learned one thing from this thread, it would be, do NOT head up into the wind, but head down on a cat.

Fair Winds,
Mike
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Old 18-11-2010, 17:00   #401
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Did he flip or did he pitch pole.....?? 400 posts is to many....
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Old 18-11-2010, 17:12   #402
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Did he flip or did he pitch pole.....?? 400 posts is to many....
"Anna" was capsized by a wind gust.

Tom
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Old 18-11-2010, 17:22   #403
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"Anna" was capsized by a wind gust.

Tom
Why did it take just a wind gust to flip it?
As for Markj's posts I never have any trouble understanding them they are usually funny or when he is serious they make sense. But the fact that he sails around the world in a mono/plastic/excharter/french designed and built boat probably does not go down well with many who participate on this forum
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Old 18-11-2010, 17:29   #404
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Originally Posted by YOGAO View Post
Khagan,

If you have learned one thing from this thread, it would be, do NOT head up into the wind, but head down on a cat.

Fair Winds,
Mike
Do you actually believe that he could have carried a single reef downwind in 60 knots without pitchpoling? What if it was 70 knots, very possible in a micro burst? That would be equivalent, by the way, to your Maine Cat with full sail up. No, I don't think you have been caught in overpowering conditions with much sail up. Please don't try, it won't work.

I think Chris White made his feeling clear on this. I believe every cat sailor that has done enough time will agree that slow forereaching with eased sails is the sane way to manage brief but powerful squalls. If they flog, so be it, you should have taken them down.

I think the lessons have to do with watch keeping, autopilots, and locking sheets into self tailing winches. This was easily avoided.

Strong conditions with sustained winds and breaking waves are a completely different subject--I won't comment on those. But I 've seen over 60 knots on a knot meter in a squall a number of times and know how to deal with that. I was in a fleet once on a beach cat where winds over 50 knots were recorded and did fine, close reaching in survival mode. Down wind on that beach cat, I know I would have pitchpoled in anything over 30 knots. Yes, a cruising cat is different (I have one), but not THAT different.
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Old 18-11-2010, 17:40   #405
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I didn't mean to offend anyone that owns a cat. I have been thinking about them for a while. I was even planning on building one. I made a 1/10th scale model of a Prout 50. They are gorgeous boats. I would love to own one, can't afford them. But having said that, and thinking it through, when they get into big winds ( correct me here if I'm off base ) wouldn't they have a tendancy to flip. Wind through the tunnel and all that? no leverage underneath. Just how much the beam offsets that I don't know since I'm not an engineer. Just musing. Not trying to start a multi vs mono war. I would love to have two boats. A cat for fair weather bopping around and a mono racer like a Newport, ( well 3 ) and a mono cruiser for travel.
You can talk about mono's all you want. It's the facts and only the facts I search for. Nothing else, not belittling anyone or anything. I stand corrected about the cat being prone to flip statement.
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