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Old 27-03-2012, 17:47   #91
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Re: Lagoons Have Cheap Brass Thruhulls

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Originally Posted by impi View Post
You make a valid point ... however I think Lagoon and "French made products" were specifically targeted and I from first hand experience can tell you it is a MORE GENERAL PROBLEM worldwide in the manufacture of Cats. I had to make that point clear because it seemed to me someone has it 'in' for a 'specific product' and I find that unacceptable.
Since Im looking at used Lagoons they were spcifically targeted...another item re the cheap wiring hasnt been mentioned.....and that is the insulation on the wires. This is -to my limited knowledge-not marked on the untinned wire cable used. It should have the resistant tempature stamped on it every few feet-usually in degrees centitgrade say 50 or 60 degrees. This would indicate how long that insulation would resist melting at that tempature for a given rated period of time. Even alll non tinned wire available from such chain outlets as Home Depot have this insulation rating....... Now that fella whos 'very happy' with his un-tinned wire is a fine example of the "denialists"-this is main reason manufacture:viking :rs 'get away' with putting cheap shoddy dangerous items in their boats.
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Old 27-03-2012, 19:57   #92
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Re: Lagoons Have Cheap Brass Thruhulls

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Since Im looking at used Lagoons they were spcifically targeted...another item re the cheap wiring hasnt been mentioned.....and that is the insulation on the wires. This is -to my limited knowledge-not marked on the untinned wire cable used. It should have the resistant tempature stamped on it every few feet-usually in degrees centitgrade say 50 or 60 degrees. This would indicate how long that insulation would resist melting at that tempature for a given rated period of time. Even alll non tinned wire available from such chain outlets as Home Depot have this insulation rating....... Now that fella whos 'very happy' with his un-tinned wire is a fine example of the "denialists"-this is main reason manufacture:viking :rs 'get away' with putting cheap shoddy dangerous items in their boats.

Well George,

Sounds like you can scrap Lagoons from your targeted cat and look at other brands. Problem solved.
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Old 27-03-2012, 20:03   #93
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Re: Lagoons Have Cheap Brass Thruhulls

Thanks 'coach' -----Actually not as Im looking at American made TPI Lagoons which do not have these afflictions.
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Old 27-03-2012, 20:20   #94
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Re: Lagoons Have Cheap Brass Thruhulls

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Thanks 'coach' -----Actually not as Im looking at American made TPI Lagoons which do not have these afflictions.
Well there you go you apparently don't need any coaching unlike me
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Old 28-03-2012, 15:07   #95
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Re: Lagoons Have Cheap Brass Thruhulls

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Well George,

Sounds like you can scrap Lagoons from your targeted cat and look at other brands. Problem solved.
Maybe not. The problem may not be limited to Lagoons, or to Catamarans.....

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Old 28-03-2012, 15:19   #96
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Re: Lagoons Have Cheap Brass Thruhulls

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Maybe not. The problem may not be limited to Lagoons, or to Catamarans.....

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Old 28-03-2012, 15:38   #97
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Re: Lagoons Have Cheap Brass Thruhulls

Every boat i've either built or bought over 30 years i've maintained, none have burnt or sunk, i have only used 'tinned' wiring on the USL surveyed boats, thru hulls on surveyed boats were all stub pipe and flange welded to a compensating plate with 316# gate valve or Bronze Gate.
Non-surveyed i used marelon thru hulls and plastic ball valves.

All yachts that i've had when on board i'm aware of any unusual smells ie LPG or warm/burning wiring and would quickly shut the system down.

Smoke detection by automated means is both cheap and easy.

When not on board most circuits are shut down. Gas is off when not in use.

Boats require constant vigilance because you are out of your element, this thread would have all french boats listed as unservicable!!!!! Take a deep breath please.......
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Old 28-03-2012, 16:39   #98
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Re: Lagoons Have Cheap Brass Thruhulls

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Every boat i've either built or bought over 30 years i've maintained, none have burnt or sunk, i have only used 'tinned' wiring on the USL surveyed boats, thru hulls on surveyed boats were all stub pipe and flange welded to a compensating plate with 316# gate valve or Bronze Gate.
Non-surveyed i used marelon thru hulls and plastic ball valves.

All yachts that i've had when on board i'm aware of any unusual smells ie LPG or warm/burning wiring and would quickly shut the system down.

Smoke detection by automated means is both cheap and easy.

When not on board most circuits are shut down. Gas is off when not in use.

Boats require constant vigilance because you are out of your element, this thread would have all french boats listed as unservicable!!!!! Take a deep breath please.......
I believe all of the cheap factory installed elements can be replaced with good ones.
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Old 28-03-2012, 18:21   #99
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Re: Lagoons Have Cheap Brass Thruhulls

The US fascination with tinned wire is an example of voodoo electrics. There is simply no sustained evidence that it is necessary, especially on interior wiring. Our water is just as salty as yours and Europe has some of the densest boat populations in the world.( especially sailboats, and we manufacture by far the most) The fact is they survive fine in the environment.

People going on about tinned wire and heat stamped wire coverings are missing the point. It simply isn't applicable.

Im not saying boats don't have faults, but the focus is not where your looking

Dave
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Old 28-03-2012, 19:11   #100
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Re: Lagoons Have Cheap Brass Thruhulls

tell that to the two Lagoon owners that burnt down last month who didnt have tined wire or rated insulation wire...
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Old 28-03-2012, 19:13   #101
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Re: Lagoons Have Cheap Brass Thruhulls

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The US fascination with tinned wire is an example of voodoo electrics. There is simply no sustained evidence that it is necessary, especially on interior wiring. Our water is just as salty as yours and Europe has some of the densest boat populations in the world.( especially sailboats, and we manufacture by far the most) The fact is they survive fine in the environment.

People going on about tinned wire and heat stamped wire coverings are missing the point. It simply isn't applicable.

Im not saying boats don't have faults, but the focus is not where your looking

Dave
Like the street lights, marina wiring etal is all tinned, if nervous a shot of WD40 at the terminal end is fine.... Done that on our fishing boat for years.....Frank
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Old 28-03-2012, 19:13   #102
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Re: Lagoons Have Cheap Brass Thruhulls

also tell that to the U/L Underwriters Labratories Agency
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Old 28-03-2012, 19:16   #103
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Re: Lagoons Have Cheap Brass Thruhulls

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tell that to the two Lagoon owners that burnt down last month who didnt have tined wire or rated insulation wire...
If that was the direct cause insurance companies would be withdrawing policies at a fast rate and requiring all new policy holders to get their wires tinned, more the question is what mod's have been done? What maintenence hasn't??
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Old 28-03-2012, 19:17   #104
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Re: Lagoons Have Cheap Brass Thruhulls

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I believe all of the cheap factory installed elements can be replaced with good ones.
You nail it! Every piece of machinery i've owned cars, boats and bikes i've improved that's not a problem. Cheers
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Old 28-03-2012, 19:21   #105
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Re: Lagoons Have Cheap Brass Thruhulls

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Like the street lights, marina wiring etal is all tinned, if nervous a shot of WD40 at the terminal end is fine.... Done that on our fishing boat for years.....Frank
not on our side of the pond it isn't, and funny my marina lights are always working. As they say the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

BTW the reason I bring this up , is that its silly to condemn a boat based on tinned /untinned wiring, its not where the action is, You want to look at basic construction, deck hardware, mast, engines etc.

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