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Old 23-05-2013, 21:04   #1
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Lagoon or Sunreef or FP?

Hi,
I am a new member and making initial and somewhat uneducated inquiries into getting a new cat in the 50 to 60 range. Would appreciate hearing peoples opinions........

I am after a big cruising yacht with the creature comforts which I intend to become familiar with in my home port for a few seasons as a platform for extended stays and maybe a bit of social racing. I ultimately want to cruise the south pacific and Asian archipelagos. Also interested in competing in some of the excellent (and very social) regattas through Thailand, Malaysia etc.


My preferences:
  • for a flybridge style 4 cabin cruising cat.
  • with all the heavy stuff - washing machine, desalinator, dishwasher, lots of refrigeration, etc etc
  • able to be managed with three competent crew
I have looked at the Lagoon 560 and the FP Sanya 57 and the Sunreef 58.

Questions:
Any others that compare?
How would you compare these three? Has anyone experience with one or more? Build quality, setup?
Are these going to be slow around a course? How would you compare sailing ability and speed?
Finally, am I unrealistic in my expectations?

Please give it to me straight!! All opinions much appreciated.
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Old 24-05-2013, 03:53   #2
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Re: Lagoon or Sunreef or FP?

Go sail them all - there isn't any substitute for that. If you want a fast cat you should be looking at Outremer (51 or 5X), Catana (55 or 59) and Gunboat (55/60). I chose the 5X and we average 9-11 knots for long passages sailing conservatively. We regularly sail >15 knots and can sail >20.

All three you suggest are nice boats but they are increasingly large in size, so IMHO Sunreef is "bigger/nicer" than the Lagoon which is similarly bigger than the FP. The performance I would expect would be in reverse with the FP the best performer and the Sunreef the slowest.

No cat is really slow, so only by sailing them will you determine whether one of the three you're looking at offers you enough performance.

I would look at what angles you can point (TWA/AWA) - dagger board cats can point higher than non-dagger board cats.

The fast cats are lighter and generally have finer hulls, more open space in front of the saloon, and a big sail locker forward (for greater boyancy in the open ocean to limit stalling into waves) and consequently have less space - any of the boats I mentioned can still have 4 (or more) cabins but none has as much space interior wise as any of the 3 you mentioned.

You don't need to compromise on stuff. I do have a washing machine, AC, 8KW genset, and lots of fridge/freezer space on my 5X for example. Of course more weight will decrease performance - everything is a compromise one way or another.
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Old 25-05-2013, 23:48   #3
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Re: Lagoon or Sunreef or FP?

Thanks, Dan. helpful opinions.

Yes they are big heavy beasts, all three. I am definitely looking for a comfortable and spacious cruising platform as a priority - with sailing performance as secondary but would be no fun going in these types of regattas if it is dead, embarrassingly slow compared to its competition. Clearly all these there are heavy, relatively wide hulled comfort-oriented boats.

As a guesstimate, if your 5X is doing 9-11 knots would that be that in 15kts of wind? - or more? What would you reckon an equivalent FP 57 boatspeed would be? 2 or 3 kts less?

Also, how many crew do you comfortably need as a minimum in a boat your size?
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Old 26-05-2013, 05:49   #4
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Re: Lagoon or Sunreef or FP?

I was on a 5X last week doing 13 knots in 15 to windward, cracked off a little we were 16-17 knots in 15 of true
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Old 26-05-2013, 09:16   #5
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Re: Lagoon or Sunreef or FP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longreach View Post
As a guesstimate, if your 5X is doing 9-11 knots would that be that in 15kts of wind? - or more? What would you reckon an equivalent FP 57 boatspeed would be? 2 or 3 kts less?

Also, how many crew do you comfortably need as a minimum in a boat your size?
I haven't sailed on the FP57, only the 48 and in charter config at that (but that boat was pretty slow) - I can't comment on the FP's speed. Factor is right, that's the kind of performance we see regularly. We can do 10 in 11 knots of wind when we fly the gennaker on a close reach. When there is lots of wind, we're typically trying to slow the boat down and we reef the main and fly one of the smaller foresails. I've seen 19 knots boat speed with 2 reefs and the stay sail in 35 knots apparent - that's the trigger point for putting in the 3rd reef :-)

We sail with 3 on passages and run a 3hour watch system, 3 on 6 off. You can manage her happily on passage on your own - its helpful to have someone else to Gybe, and we generally reef/unreef during the day when everyone is awake, so there are 3 sets of hands available.
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Old 26-05-2013, 19:55   #6
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Re: Lagoon or Sunreef or FP?

If you want luxury in the 50-60 range, and you want a flybridge, then nothing can beat the Leopard 58. They also come in a wide range of customization of the bridgedeck. For racing, haven't a clue. Not many have been built yet - I would ask for a test sail first.
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Old 26-05-2013, 20:44   #7
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Re: Lagoon or Sunreef or FP?

Longreach,
I'll give it to you straight. When your looking at spending $1.5 million on a boat, hire a professional to guide you instead of asking us. Or, maybe just start to sail a few and then you won't be so uneducated.

I realize that is rude, but quite frankly, asking such a generic question concerning such a large sum of money is ridiculous.
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Old 28-05-2013, 08:37   #8
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Re: Lagoon or Sunreef or FP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
Longreach,
I'll give it to you straight. When your looking at spending $1.5 million on a boat, hire a professional to guide you instead of asking us. Or, maybe just start to sail a few and then you won't be so uneducated.

I realize that is rude, but quite frankly, asking such a generic question concerning such a large sum of money is ridiculous.
For $200k and 180 days I will sail them all for you and provide detailed reports, analysis, videos and 3D virtual reality walk-throughs. I'll even provide miniature, hand carved, scale models of each.

;-)
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Old 30-05-2013, 20:19   #9
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Re: Lagoon or Sunreef or FP?

What is the best boat show(s) to get these all covered?

Dan360,
thanks for the helpful feed back. yes I would not consider that sort of outlay without sailing them all and going through every detail before satisfying myself. Early days - trying to narrow down the field.

Rohan,
I will have another look but initially put off by the appearance of them. Visually boxy and top heavy appearance.Thanks.

Palarran,
you have stated the obvious, but I am canvassing opinions from all sources - even "rude" ones.

djtopper,
??

thanks for the replies.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:39   #10
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Re: Lagoon or Sunreef or FP?

If you haven't already, you want to take a look at Chris White's Atlantic 57. Not a flybridge, but will be much more fun to sail if you want to do a bit of light racing. For long distance i prefer the pilot house to the flybridge. The new Atlantic 47 has a cool new rig, but may not be big enough for you.
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Old 01-06-2013, 18:41   #11
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Re: Lagoon or Sunreef or FP?

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If you haven't already, you want to take a look at Chris White's Atlantic 57. Not a flybridge, but will be much more fun to sail if you want to do a bit of light racing. For long distance i prefer the pilot house to the flybridge.

That helm arrangement is interesting. I have often wondered why the helm station on boats is normally so far aft instead of forward. After all, a bus driver doesn't sit in the back of the bus to steer, does he?

On monohulls, I can maybe understand because the stern is wider, but that's not really the case for multihulls. Or maybe it's just traditional, because in the old days it may have been difficult to have the wheel on the opposite end of the boat from the rudder. But my experience is limited so I am guessing here.
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Old 01-06-2013, 20:16   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark424 View Post
If you haven't already, you want to take a look at Chris White's Atlantic 57. Not a flybridge, but will be much more fun to sail if you want to do a bit of light racing. For long distance i prefer the pilot house to the flybridge. The new Atlantic 47 has a cool new rig, but may not be big enough for you.
The new Atlantic 47 with twin mast foil looks to be the safest cruising cat in the world- well capable of short handed fast sailing. It depends on whether you want the fly bridge for its visual impact or you want a functional all weather pilot house that is safe and comfortable. Well worth a look on the Atlantic Cats website.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:35   #13
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Re: Lagoon or Sunreef or FP?

they do look interesting....will have a proper look at them.
thanks
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Old 13-06-2013, 06:15   #14
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Re: Lagoon or Sunreef or FP?

You could get a nice Voyage 600 with some custom mods. Teey may not be fast as a Cris White but are sturdy built boats and are . Get an Owners versions and put 1200-1500 watts of solar on it with your other goodies and go cruising.

Best thing is to get on board some of your choices and have a look. You will definately want to go to the Annapolis show in October and then go CHARTER a few of them to see how they are yourself. Take your crew and go enjoy the search.

Do give the Voyage's a look, the owner's versions make nice cruising boats. THey are not many used one's go on the market, but you can build one and Voyage will do some minor mods. I am not connected with Voyage just enjoy the boats.

Good luck, and if you get to the boat show in Annapolis maybe we can share a cool beverage!
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Old 13-06-2013, 11:33   #15
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Going back to your original choices, have you looked at the new Lagoon 52? IMHO it's miles better than a 56 and slightly smaller, which is a good thing when you need to pay by square meter for dockage or halouts....

About boat shows: also go to La Rochelle and Le Grande Motte. La Rochelle being the biggest French show and Le Grande Motte being strictly multihulls.

In US, Miami has specifically a catamarans section, so that would be the biggest there.
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