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Old 28-12-2014, 09:10   #1
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Lagoon Mastervolt Charger and Euro 220v

I've got a European Lagoon 500 with the 220v system installed and were currently plugged into the dock in St. Marten which we just learned is 60hz. Everything is working fine (dock gave us a plug to convert from Euro 3 pin to US 4 pin). Charger seems to be charing up the batteries even the A/C works but I just want to make sure that we aren't silently doing any damage by running the 240v 60hz into the boat?

Cany anyone give some advice here?
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Old 28-12-2014, 09:18   #2
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Re: Lagoon Mastervolt Charger and Euro 220v

Dont know wich model you have , but the ChargeMaster 12/50-3, runs on 96 to 265 volts, and 50 to 60hz
so you can basically plug it in everywhere. Like most new mastervolt equip.

.manitu
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Old 29-12-2014, 01:47   #3
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Re: Lagoon Mastervolt Charger and Euro 220v

Contact your Air Con manufacturer. I wanted to run my 110v 60hz MarineAir units at 110v 50Hz as I was using a simple transformer to step down from 220v. They said 'yes, it'll be ok as long as you set the fan speed to high. The fan motors might burn out if you run them at slow speed.' That was something I hadn't considered. Yours may appear to be running ok but you could be doing damage and they are expensive things to take a risk with.
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Old 29-12-2014, 06:27   #4
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Re: Lagoon Mastervolt Charger and Euro 220v

I presume you are getting 208V or 220V 60Hz from the dock. If so, I think you will be ok. Running 50Hz appliances on 60Hz is almost always no problem (but running 60Hz appliances on 50Hz is often a problem). Motors will run faster on 60Hz but that usually isn't a problem. If you have air conditioning (what Lagoon 500 doesn't?) have someone measure the current drawn by the sea water pump and the compressor unit. Compare that to the rating and probably it will be almost exactly the same. Or you can ask the air con maker for advice.

But not all marinas will have 220V hookups. When you get to one that has only 110V shore power you will need a 110/220V step up transformer. These are pretty heavy. But you may never tie up at such a dock so you may wish to leave all as it is and enjoy the rest of the season.
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Old 29-12-2014, 15:18   #5
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Re: Lagoon Mastervolt Charger and Euro 220v

I find this topic most interesting and helpful.

I have a US boat built to run 220v European voltage and have 2 transformers converting dockside 110v input into 220v European and run all European appliances on the boat.
My boat is in the US and is often at a dock.

I also have a Maspower[?] [Yanmar motor] 8kva Generator, built/supplied in Florida, which I believe is also 220volt.

I recently replaced one of the airconditioners and as the technician was familiar with the boat and had serviced the other two aircon units I didn''t ask him about US/Euro voltage - perhaps I should have.
Altho I now recall him possibly mentioning, when previously servicing the other 2 units, that the fans should be run on high. It is helpful to now know why, thanks to this blog. This creates an issue with the 3rd unit as he suggested because of price considerations that I go up a size when replacing it, and now it is too powerful for the area it cools and thus the fan can only be run on low speed, altho this also creates an occasional icing-up issue with the unit itself.
Hmmmm..... I am looking at putting an air deflector on the ceiling outlet so that it can become more useable. At the moment I now run it to initially & rapidly cool the area and then turn it off, which allows the adjacent aircons to cope with keeping it from heating up again. Not ideal but ....
Any suggestions? I would be better exchanging it for one of the other 2, but this would be cost prohibitive as it is in a very awkward and hard to reach location.
My other query is about my European washing machine, which is driving me nuts. It is a front loading small unit and it just doesn't work properly.
It rarely gets up to speed to spin the drum properly - washes ok, but doesn't have the 'juice' to power the spin cycle. Will occasionally do so when empty or when run late at night when the dock power supply is under less power load.
I believe it is to do with the 50 - 60 cycle issue but am not getting any answers by marine electricians I talk to.
The same thing occurs when I run it off the generator.
Please, please can somebody give me some answers to the washing machine issue, as it is a great little machine and is very useful, but just rarely works.
It is not a combination washer/dryer, only a washer.
Looking forward to some helpful responses,
Thankyou.
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Old 29-12-2014, 17:23   #6
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Re: Lagoon Mastervolt Charger and Euro 220v

Thank you for all the replies. This is good stuff to know.
We too have a washer on board that is 220v and it works great and the spin cycle sounds like a jet taking off so if your washer is a 220v washer it should be working great. Plus if as you say the problem persists with your 220v generator than it sounds like you may have a 60hz machine and its running slower or its just not working well anymore.

So when running the A/C we should run the fan on high or low ?
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Old 29-12-2014, 19:36   #7
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Re: Lagoon Mastervolt Charger and Euro 220v

I know that speed controls work by delaying the turn on of the current on each AC cycle. Most speed controls are designed for a certain operating frequency (e.g. 60Hz). But I can't figure out how running it on the wrong frequency could hurt anything. It would just make the speed control run the motor at the wrong speed. If the unit was designed for 50Hz the motor would run slower than expected at low speed when using 60Hz power. At high speed the speed control is effectively doing nothing so that's probably where the advice comes from to leave it on high.

I honestly don't know the answer to this one but there are lots of "anecdotal theories" floating around that don't make engineering sense. Running the fan on high is the same as not using any speed control so that should always be safe. But I wish someone would explain the theory about why there could be any damage to the motor by running it slow because I can't think of any technical reason.
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Old 30-12-2014, 03:36   #8
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Re: Lagoon Mastervolt Charger and Euro 220v

By and large the frequency issue is less relevant today then previously. Often AC motors are Now controlled by internally generated AC systems independent of the mains ( this is true of most modern washing machines for example )

I,do a review of all the rating plates of your AC equipment to be sure. There's not too much of that on a boat for it to be a big job

Dave
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Old 30-12-2014, 22:56   #9
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Re: Lagoon Mastervolt Charger and Euro 220v

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Originally Posted by ikold View Post
Thank you for all the replies. This is good stuff to know.
We too have a washer on board that is 220v and it works great and the spin cycle sounds like a jet taking off so if your washer is a 220v washer it should be working great. Plus if as you say the problem persists with your 220v generator than it sounds like you may have a 60hz machine and its running slower or its just not working well anymore.

So when running the A/C we should run the fan on high or low ?
I suggest you run the A/C on high fan until you get more info re fan motors.
As to the front loading washer - altho 5yrs old, it has almost never been used [for obvious reasons] and is a great little unit..... if only the motor would handle the load and spin the drum. My transformers are Mastervolt brand and show compatability of 50-60cycles on the label, so assume it adjusts to both. Maybe not. Will have to investigate output from both transformers and generators and get more info on washer from manufacturer re cycles. Does sound like a cycle issue. Thanks for the info.
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Old 25-02-2015, 20:23   #10
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Re: Lagoon Mastervolt Charger and Euro 220v

For those wondering. It works fine.

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Old 01-03-2015, 13:18   #11
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Re: Lagoon Mastervolt Charger and Euro 220v

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Originally Posted by transmitterdan View Post
I know that speed controls work by delaying the turn on of the current on each AC cycle. Most speed controls are designed for a certain operating frequency (e.g. 60Hz). But I can't figure out how running it on the wrong frequency could hurt anything. It would just make the speed control run the motor at the wrong speed. If the unit was designed for 50Hz the motor would run slower than expected at low speed when using 60Hz power. At high speed the speed control is effectively doing nothing so that's probably where the advice comes from to leave it on high.

I honestly don't know the answer to this one but there are lots of "anecdotal theories" floating around that don't make engineering sense. Running the fan on high is the same as not using any speed control so that should always be safe. But I wish someone would explain the theory about why there could be any damage to the motor by running it slow because I can't think of any technical reason.

Running a motor at the wrong freq cases the motor to run hotter. Heat is the problem.
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Old 01-03-2015, 16:11   #12
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Lagoon Mastervolt Charger and Euro 220v

Frequency is unlikely to be the issue. Most modern washing machine use high frequency AC for the drum motor. Only the exhaust pump would be a simple AC motor.


Sounds like you don't have enough juice to power it properly if it's works at night etc. then there's where the fault lies
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Old 01-03-2015, 16:22   #13
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Re: Lagoon Mastervolt Charger and Euro 220v

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Originally Posted by justlearnin View Post
Running a motor at the wrong freq cases the motor to run hotter. Heat is the problem.
The simple speed control in an A/C unit doesn't change the frequency. It changes the average voltage via a thyristor. It should not cause the motor to overheat. I think the reason some experience problems on inverters is the inverter waveform may not be a good sinusoid and that confuses the speed control.
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