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Old 20-09-2014, 14:02   #91
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Having seen the above photos, do you still want to make this statement?

An apology might be nice...

My observation is that Minaret knows far more about real world boat construction, via having to repair the damaged ones, than just about any other poster here on CF. He has a solid track record, and I hate to see him dissed, for he might well take his expertise and good writing skills elsewhere. That would be a loss for us all.

Jim
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Old 20-09-2014, 15:42   #92
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
My observation is that Minaret knows far more about real world boat construction, via having to repair the damaged ones, than just about any other poster here on CF. He has a solid track record, and I hate to see him dissed, for he might well take his expertise and good writing skills elsewhere. That would be a loss for us all.

Jim
That is no doubt true Jim, but we hope that everyone (Minaret included) might also temper their remarks with some realities unrelated to hull construction specifics, e.g.
  1. Lagoon are the largest builders of cats in the world with literally thousands of their vessels very happily in use, including (like our beloved CatNirvana) crossing oceans very safely indeed. So Lagoons DO leave their home ports and return safely, often in our own case...and the sheer numbers of Lagoons make it statistically more likely we will see examples of them in distress; and
  2. The photo examples so prominently displayed here appear to be extreme damage of the sort that would destroy any grp hull.
We are not blind defenders of Lagoon, far from it. We do, however, think it's beneath the standards of many in this Forum to revert to fairly blatant 'tall poppy' syndrome attacks whenever a Lagoon vessel hits the rocks, hard!

Better -- We suggest -- for us all to show a bit of empathy for this very unhappy result...and pray to whichever god(s) we choose that the same or similar fate never happens to our own vessels.

Now with that off our chests, we will happily hand the thread back to the discussions of hull constructions...
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Old 20-09-2014, 15:56   #93
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Having seen the above photos, do you still want to make this statement?

An apology might be nice...

My observation is that Minaret knows far more about real world boat construction, via having to repair the damaged ones, than just about any other poster here on CF. He has a solid track record, and I hate to see him dissed, for he might well take his expertise and good writing skills elsewhere. That would be a loss for us all.

Jim


No worries, mate! I'm nothing if not thick skinned...



They've all seen the photo's before. And it's not just Lagoon, or just cats. This thread brings us to a point discussed often here. More info from manufacturers is needed, so that buyers shelling out their hard earned dough know EXACTLY what they are getting.
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Old 20-09-2014, 16:15   #94
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
No worries, mate! I'm nothing if not thick skinned...



They've all seen the photo's before. And it's not just Lagoon, or just cats. This thread brings us to a point discussed often here. More info from manufacturers is needed, so that buyers shelling out their hard earned dough know EXACTLY what they are getting.
I can understand what everyone is talking about, but I have no experience to speak of, so I'm reading and learning.

Thank you to all who have shared your knowledge, it's very much appreciated by those who haven't even posted in this thread!

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Old 20-09-2014, 16:18   #95
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Having seen the above photos, do you still want to make this statement?



An apology might be nice...



My observation is that Minaret knows far more about real world boat construction, via having to repair the damaged ones, than just about any other poster here on CF. He has a solid track record, and I hate to see him dissed, for he might well take his expertise and good writing skills elsewhere. That would be a loss for us all.



Jim

Yes, the statement stands and no apology. Lagoons are cored above the waterline and not below, thus Lagoons are cored boats. If Minaret had made it clearer that he was talking about below waterline only then my statement would have been wrong. Minarets statement was Lagoons have no core, which is incorrect.


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Old 20-09-2014, 16:22   #96
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

[QUOTE=minaret;1631915]After all the pics of sunk and broken Lagoons we've seen on this forum in the last couple of years, I'm shocked you guys aren't aware. Lagoons have no core, they are solid glass. Which is extremely thin and mostly chop

That is Minarets statement that I disagreed with.
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Old 20-09-2014, 16:26   #97
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
So, a Lagoon owner agrees they are not cored (below the waterline). Having actually ground into several of these boats, I assure you there is plenty of chop matt. In fact, zero CSM would be a severely brittle layup done in anything but epoxy. Anyone who says there is NO CSM in their layup has very little knowledge of boat construction.
He does mention below the waterline here.

Coops.
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Old 20-09-2014, 16:28   #98
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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He does mention below the waterline here.



Coops.

Your right Coops, but that is after his first post where he says Lagoons have no core in them. We all make mistakes.


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Old 20-09-2014, 16:33   #99
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

What I have heard about the Lagoons is that the bulkheads not are glassed in to the hull, only fasten with putty

That lead to a common problems where the joints crack.
This accordingly to a surveyor.

Can anyone confirm?
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Old 20-09-2014, 16:41   #100
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by smj View Post
Your right Coops, but that is after his first post where he says Lagoons have no core in them. We all make mistakes.


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I seem to have gained a degree in mistakeology.

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Old 20-09-2014, 16:44   #101
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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I seem to have gained a degree in mistakeology.

Coops.
I'm sorry Coops, I wasn't referring to you as the one who made a mistake, I was referring to Minaret
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Old 20-09-2014, 16:49   #102
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Having seen the above photos, do you still want to make this statement?

An apology might be nice...

My observation is that Minaret knows far more about real world boat construction, via having to repair the damaged ones, than just about any other poster here on CF. He has a solid track record, and I hate to see him dissed, for he might well take his expertise and good writing skills elsewhere. That would be a loss for us all.

Jim
Perhaps Minaret should apologise to all Lagoon owners for saying that Lagoons have no core in their construction, and are mostly made from thin chopstrand glass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
After all the pics of sunk and broken Lagoons we've seen on this forum in the last couple of years, I'm shocked you guys aren't aware. Lagoons have no core, they are solid glass. Which is extremely thin and mostly chop matt.

He did later back away somewhat from this incorrect statement, but he DID make it, and it IS untrue.

And given his expertise and track record, you'd have to think he KNEW it wasn't true when he said it.
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Old 20-09-2014, 16:55   #103
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

This thread started out about a Lagoon that got pounded to bits, starting from the keels up. Perhaps what Minaret meant was the keel area or below the waterline, which if you're talking about grounding, is all that really matters.
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Old 20-09-2014, 17:01   #104
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
This thread started out about a Lagoon that got pounded to bits, starting from the keels up. Perhaps what Minaret meant was the keel area or below the waterline, which if you're talking about grounding, is all that really matters.
+1^^

Exactly!
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Old 20-09-2014, 17:19   #105
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

Guys, whilst the semantics are going on, the fact remains that the evidence shows a fairly poor below waterline layup.

Now, I like Lagoons and for that reason, its a bit of a shock to see production models not be what they oughtta be!

I dont care how many cross oceans safely.......... it only took one leak in Concorde to end an illustrious safety record that screamed of more luck than good design.

This is not good, and certain circumstances NOT SAFE. This is the reality. I dont care if you all want to argue what Minaret actually meant, it doesnt change the fact that its not a strong or adequate hull.

I have crossed them off my list. I have grounded very hard in my time, and Im concerned that if I had been in this vessel, it would have been a poor outcome.

Try the Morcambe Bay in England for grounding. Tide will pull water out from under you and hit the bottom very hard......several times.
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