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Old 25-09-2014, 16:41   #301
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
If your really interested F the dealer, go directly to the manufacturer
If they are not forthcoming and brag on the layup, well then that tells a lot doesn't it.
As far as prorietary? BS anybody that works there knows the layup, unless of course it is pre-preg or something like that
guess who?
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Old 25-09-2014, 16:43   #302
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
If your really interested F the dealer, go directly to the manufacturer
If they are not forthcoming and brag on the layup, well then that tells a lot doesn't it.
As far as prorietary? BS anybody that works there knows the layup, unless of course it is pre-preg or something like that
I am not going to contact the manufacturer. If this information is available to customers, (via a dealer) with full disclosure and not just a mention of we use this and that, then it should be available to me.

A great deal has been made regarding patents and technical information not being distributed on the internet........... but EVERYTHING ends up on here including how to make an atomic weapon and DIY heart surgery. Its not a big deal to state the laminate schedule.

It doesnt matter. I respect Factors decision to not reveal that information and will move on. Enough said.
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Old 25-09-2014, 16:43   #303
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

The beauty of the internet is to allow a company to come up with a website and inform people about their products instead of wasting time telling potential customers one by one. You can post technical specs, videos, pictures, testimonials, anything to prove that your product is superior, or more cost effective, or whatever you'd like to share.

It baffles me that boat mfrs don't use that to their advantage. Yes, I know, sex sells and a pretty woman draped across the cushions with 2 champagne glasses on the cockpit table speaks volumes of the virility and success of the buyer...


but for those of us confident in our virility and success and don't need a fake picture to convince us to buy something, we'd like to know exactly how well built the product actually is.

Bugatti doesn't make any secret of how they build the Veyron or how fast it is, and if anyone has the right to claim intellectual property, they do.

Every boat builder uses the techniques they prefer based on experience, or comfort level, price point, relative difficulty, etc. No one is using revolutionary techniques, and I doubt if any builder is going to change the layup of their own boat based on hte published specs of a competitor. If they choose to add 2 more layers of triax, it's going to add to the cost and weight of the vessel. Hopefully it adds significantly to the strength of the vessel, which is a good thing. That still doesn't hurt the other boat builder.

(To all builders in general) If you're proud of how you built it, you should be showing it off, it takes a lot of work to do something to the best of your abilities or build the strongest hull of that weight class or whatever. Hiding construction details gives the impression that you're cutting corners and not proud of your work.

At the very least, it makes me wonder.
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Old 25-09-2014, 16:45   #304
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

Seems to me there would only be a handful of people on this forum if that, who could understand the laminate schedule on a multihull. Let's face it, most performance multis are engineered. Not only do the weight and type of fiberglass matter in a multi as well as how many laminates but also what matters is the orientation of the threads. I would guess the only people who could understand the laminate schedule in a multi would be the designer and maybe a naval architect. Take a look at a plan to build a Shuttleworth and then tell me you understand the engineering that went in behind the laminate shedules to make that a strong well built boat. Point is, you may feel better knowing the laminate schedule, but fact is chances are you will understand little about it.


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Old 25-09-2014, 16:47   #305
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
Seems to me there would only be a handful of people on this forum if that, who could understand the laminate schedule on a multihull. Let's face it, most performance multis are engineered. Not only do the weight and type of fiberglass matter in a multi as well as how many laminates but also what matters is the orientation of the threads. I would guess the only people who could understand the laminate schedule in a multi would be the designer and maybe a naval architect. Take a look at a plan to build a Shuttleworth and then tell me you understand the engineering that went in behind the laminate shedules to make that a strong well built boat. Point is, you may feel better knowing the laminate schedule, but fact is chances are you will understand little about it.


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smj
I dont understand zip about laminate schedules.
But I know men who do.
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Old 25-09-2014, 16:52   #306
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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smj

I dont understand zip about laminate schedules.

But I know men who do.

Do you know how many different types of glass, their weights, and their strand orientation there are in a multi? Like I said, it would take some really exceptional men to know that and to decipher whether that would make a strong vessel.


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Old 25-09-2014, 16:59   #307
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by smj View Post
Do you know how many different types of glass, their weights, and their strand orientation there are in a multi? Like I said, it would take some really exceptional men to know that and to decipher whether that would make a strong vessel.
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To answer you question, I repeat, I know nothing about laminate schedules.

I do know professionals who work with GRP and boats. If "exceptional" men are confined to boat manufacture designers then I guess we are all lost.

If what you say is the truth absolute then releasing the information will not cause any problems at all.
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Old 25-09-2014, 17:02   #308
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Hum Exactly which international survey standards is that. Can you provide a code and or society that defies that construction standard.
.
Australian Standards are publicly available via the relevant government agency. (See National Standards for Commercial Vessels.) All are built to CE as well, and then it depends on where you wish to have your vessel, i.e. not much point a builder building to Japanese standards if the boat is to be operated in the USA. In other words, the base level is Australia and CE and if necessary then to cater for final location of operation. Having said that its usually only edge stuff that needs to change (e.g. type of operation of vessel sewage systems)
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Old 25-09-2014, 17:05   #309
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by smj View Post
Seems to me there would only be a handful of people on this forum if that, who could understand the laminate schedule on a multihull. Let's face it, most performance multis are engineered. Not only do the weight and type of fiberglass matter in a multi as well as how many laminates but also what matters is the orientation of the threads. I would guess the only people who could understand the laminate schedule in a multi would be the designer and maybe a naval architect. Take a look at a plan to build a Shuttleworth and then tell me you understand the engineering that went in behind the laminate shedules to make that a strong well built boat. Point is, you may feel better knowing the laminate schedule, but fact is chances are you will understand little about it.


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Perhaps for some. Others are quick studies.

Other helpful info might include keel impact resistance in Newtons, side impact at specific locations, additional bracing, number of bulkheads, etc etc. This isn't rocket science, just basic physics.

I know this would require destructive testing, but when people's lives are at stake at sea, I certainly would like to know the relative strength of the boats I'm interested in purchasing.


I recall the auto industry used to have a cavalier attitude about occupant safety, back in the Corvair and Pinto days. The gov't decided to start doing testing, and now look how far the gov't has climbed up their lower intestines.

The same thing happened last year with the offroad industry with UTVs. People died in Rhino rollovers and the CPSC investigated and tested all models in the market. They started legislating changes, and it's going to get a lot worse before it gets any better.

The boating industry is very large, and I'm actually kinda surprised that Big Brother hasn't yet set it's sights on it, all in the interest of $$afety. Self regulation is always better than gov't regulation.
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Old 25-09-2014, 17:06   #310
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

Looks like only a exceptional man can make repairs in the laminate
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Old 25-09-2014, 17:06   #311
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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To answer you question, I repeat, I know nothing about laminate schedules.

I do know professionals who work with GRP and boats. If "exceptional" men are confined to boat manufacture designers then I guess we are all lost.

If what you say is the truth absolute then releasing the information will not cause any problems at all.

What info are they supposed to release? I know Shuttleworth charges a pretty hefty price to release the designed prints of his boats with lamination schedules and that's what it would take for a manufacturer to release if they wanted you to have all the info. Without the prints I believe the laminate schedule would mean nothing.


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Old 25-09-2014, 17:07   #312
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by smj View Post
Do you know how many different types of glass, their weights, and their strand orientation there are in a multi? Like I said, it would take some really exceptional men to know that and to decipher whether that would make a strong vessel.


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I'm not exceptional, but it seems that not divulging the info, is suspect.

If I where laying out the big bucks bet your ass I would be. I might just bypass even looking if it was so secretive prior to the sales pitch.

Just my opinion.
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Old 25-09-2014, 17:13   #313
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Looks like only a exceptional man can make repairs in the laminate

In a boat like your CSY the answer would be no. The CSY is way overbuilt and therefore heavy so maybe not as important as a lightweight engineered multi. Nothing against your CSY as I have a lot of respect for them.


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Old 25-09-2014, 17:15   #314
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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I'm not exceptional, but it seems that not divulging the info, is suspect.

If I where laying out the big bucks bet your ass I would be. I might just bypass even looking if it was so secretive prior to the sales pitch.

Just my opinion.

My guess is the multi builders aren't going to show you their designed engineered prints until they know you have big bucks! Give Gunboat a try and see what they say.


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Old 25-09-2014, 17:22   #315
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by smj View Post
Seems to me there would only be a handful of people on this forum if that, who could understand the laminate schedule on a multihull. Let's face it, most performance multis are engineered. Not only do the weight and type of fiberglass matter in a multi as well as how many laminates but also what matters is the orientation of the threads. I would guess the only people who could understand the laminate schedule in a multi would be the designer and maybe a naval architect. Take a look at a plan to build a Shuttleworth and then tell me you understand the engineering that went in behind the laminate shedules to make that a strong well built boat. Point is, you may feel better knowing the laminate schedule, but fact is chances are you will understand little about it.


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So are the racing multi hulls if that is performance engineered. They tend to have catastrophic failures.
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