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Old 25-09-2014, 09:04   #286
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Contrast this with boat manufacturers that won't even make the most basic construction details public .
I am not in the market for a new boat, but if I were and the manufacturer was not willing to discuss composite layup, exactly what brand and size of wire is used, electrical panels, etc. In short full construction details, then I would walk.
Two notes though, first you will have to get past the sales people, I have never met one that really knew much of anything, and secondly I think of new boat buyers, less than 1% have a clue as to construction techniques, much less electrical and mechanical systems.

Before you buy ANY boat, give a call and email the manufacturers customer support dept., with a question that they will have to research, (maybe a warranty question) if they don't get back promptly with some sort of answer, even if it's we don't know, realize this is who you will be dealing with once you buy the boat.
Personally I almost like the I don't know, but we are trying to find out answer, because it's honest, this person won't BS you to make you go away.
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Old 25-09-2014, 09:51   #287
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I am not in the market for a new boat, but if I were and the manufacturer was not willing to discuss composite layup, exactly what brand and size of wire is used, electrical panels, etc. In short full construction details, then I would walk.

Good advice.
I am considering a new boat at the moment.
Talking to different manufacturers does reveal very different attitudes to customers.

Sales staff that know the correct answer to most of the technical questions do exist. They will find the information when they don't know. There is no need to hide the basic structure of the boat even with preliminary questions, unless there is something to hide.
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Old 25-09-2014, 15:29   #288
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
If it is a good laminate schedule, they should be proud of it.

We endlessly debate the construction of anchors. The type of steel used is subject to the most detailed scrutiny.

Contrast this with boat manufacturers that won't even make the most basic construction details public .
I agree my brands certainly do, and as a sales person I pride myself on my product knowledge and my ability to get answers. I invite you to ask any client I have dealt with - anyone of them. But somehow I don't think that is what you are trying to achieve.

AS for the basic details of construction not being public,. Well that doesn't include my brandsSeawind and Outremer. both publish basic specifiactions that are freely available, A fair range of the the construction details ate public on websites and in videos etc, tours of factories onsite discussions of builds etc, .

And if you are a client/owner/prospective I am happy to spend the requisite time it would take to go through the detail, but ultimately to really address the detail requires a factory visit and a linkage between the documentation and the build. The "build book" QA system for a 5X for example is literally hundreds of pages. Seawind public specification booklet describe the build method i.e. foam core and resin types etc. Also I note they specify hulls built to Australian Survey Standard.

What you seem to be suggesting is that Seawind for example post every page of their private - paid for, sourced from third parties like High Modulus, intellectual property in the public domain. Really? As I said, if you are even remotely genuinely interested in the boats from the perspective of being a current owner or a prospective purchaser, happy to provide as much detail as you need to make an informed decision. Or are you just trolling?

And Yes, obviously an anchor is just like a boat, exactly the same.
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Old 25-09-2014, 15:41   #289
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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As I said, if you are even remotely genuinely interested in the boats, happy to provide as much detail as you need to make an informed decision.
I am asking for this material to be made available to me as a potential client. I would like to make an informed decision.

You may post the information on this thread or if you prefer, you may email it to me.

I await your early response.

Dr G.W. Looking for a Catamaran.
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Old 25-09-2014, 15:57   #290
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by weavis View Post
I am asking for this material to be made available to me as a potential client. I would like to make an informed decision.

You may post the information on this thread or if you prefer, you may email it to me.

I await your early response.

Dr G.W. Looking for a Catamaran.
Nice try weavis. Approach your local agent, or give me a phone call, I don't do business with people in public. Particularly the highly informed totally balanced arena that is the internet.
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Old 25-09-2014, 15:59   #291
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

It cannot be highly informed if the information is being hidden for some reason.

Coops.
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Old 25-09-2014, 16:00   #292
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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It cannot be highly informed if the information is being hidden for some reason.

Coops.
It isnt being hidden, its being provided to genuine customers. You do get that don't you.
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Old 25-09-2014, 16:02   #293
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

Lol!! im not in the sales department or work like a comercial vendor or something else, but ,,, a yacht bróker tell me one time, you never know where the bell is ringing!!! just saying!
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Old 25-09-2014, 16:07   #294
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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It isnt being hidden, its being provided to genuine customers. You do get that don't you.
Why not the general public and potential buyers?
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Old 25-09-2014, 16:08   #295
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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It isnt being hidden, its being provided to genuine customers. You do get that don't you.
OK. It's being hidden from the public then. Why I don't know, there is nothing to stop a customer or even a potential customer from publishing the details when they have them.

Coops.
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Old 25-09-2014, 16:15   #296
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

I'm not into cat's, would never be able to afford one for a start (I'm a doggy person really).

But I completely get why a manafaturer would not want all their technical information discussed on a forum like this. These forum's are bring out the experts in all facets of everything from the martial arts of ekky thump to the specifics of anti breaking on cars.

It would be a sure way of turning customers away.

From the prices I've seen bandied for these vessels, anyone who is seriously contemplating purchasing would spend a few measly dollars and get on a plane and go to the dealer/manafacturer, where I'm sure a keen buyer would be shouted drinks, dinner and probably a room with entertainment of your choosing.
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Old 25-09-2014, 16:18   #297
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by Factor View Post
I agree my brands certainly do, and as a sales person I pride myself on my product knowledge and my ability to get answers. I invite you to ask any client I have dealt with - anyone of them. But somehow I don't think that is what you are trying to achieve.

AS for the basic details of construction not being public,. Well that doesn't include my brandsSeawind and Outremer. both publish basic specifiactions that are freely available, A fair range of the the construction details ate public on websites and in videos etc, tours of factories onsite discussions of builds etc, .
I for one tried to find some of that public build information. What I found was a sentence that said "Hull Laminate: Vinyl Ester (Modified epoxy) resin laminate of the hulls between the gelcoat and the foam core. Polyester resin elsewhere. Laminate specifications are to Australian and International Survey
Standards"

Hum Exactly which international survey standards is that. Can you provide a code and or society that defies that construction standard.

Perhaps just a simple percentage of CSM in the layup would be nice to know, say within 10%, so no proprietary information is released.
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Old 25-09-2014, 16:21   #298
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Nice try weavis. Approach your local agent, or give me a phone call, I don't do business with people in public. Particularly the highly informed totally balanced arena that is the internet.
This is what I am not understanding.
The ONLY thing that is private in purchasing a vessel is the financial agreement between the seller and the buyer.

The rest of the information, by virtue of the fact that they are commercially made production vessels, should be public knowledge. Its not intellectual property, its a tangible visible saleable item with no intellectual property attached via patent to the build of the hull, which in itself has to meet a standard level of acceptability via defined parameters of defined build methodology.

Now, if you had said you cant be bothered to post it, you know what, I accept that wholesale.... I couldnt be bothered either if I was selling boats. If the information is available to clients then it should be available to anyone. Its a selling point if its strong.

SeaWind is a marque I have looked at hard. I have followed the development of the vessels for a number of years, and been impressed by their amazing handling and comfort.

I will be buying a used vessel because I dont want to invest in a new one and take time to iron out the 'newness'. As my finances fluctuate, sometimes I can afford to spend more and sometimes I can afford to spend less. Right now Im on a cusp..... so am looking at more expensive vessels.

But even a second hand one. I want to know everything about the build and layup.

Well if you cant help me, and your a dealer for the marque, then it seems I will never get the information unless I purchase from a dealer?

I have tremendous respect for your knowledge and helpfulness that has been observed on this forum. I thank you for that. On this matter we will have to disagree intensely and leave it at that.

sincerely.
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Old 25-09-2014, 16:32   #299
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

If your really interested F the dealer, go directly to the manufacturer
If they are not forthcoming and brag on the layup, well then that tells a lot doesn't it.
As far as prorietary? BS anybody that works there knows the layup, unless of course it is pre-preg or something like that
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Old 25-09-2014, 16:37   #300
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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This is what I am not understanding.
The ONLY thing that is private in purchasing a vessel is the financial agreement between the seller and the buyer.

The rest of the information, by virtue of the fact that they are commercially made production vessels, should be public knowledge. Its not intellectual property, its a tangible visible saleable item with no intellectual property attached via patent to the build of the hull, which in itself has to meet a standard level of acceptability via defined parameters of defined build methodology.

Now, if you had said you cant be bothered to post it, you know what, I accept that wholesale.... I couldnt be bothered either if I was selling boats. If the information is available to clients then it should be available to anyone. Its a selling point if its strong.

SeaWind is a marque I have looked at hard. I have followed the development of the vessels for a number of years, and been impressed by their amazing handling and comfort.

I will be buying a used vessel because I dont want to invest in a new one and take time to iron out the 'newness'. As my finances fluctuate, sometimes I can afford to spend more and sometimes I can afford to spend less. Right now Im on a cusp..... so am looking at more expensive vessels.

But even a second hand one. I want to know everything about the build and layup.

Well if you cant help me, and your a dealer for the marque, then it seems I will never get the information unless I purchase from a dealer?

I have tremendous respect for your knowledge and helpfulness that has been observed on this forum. I thank you for that. On this matter we will have to disagree intensely and leave it at that.

sincerely.
Your first part was well stated.

Sorry, but it sounds like sales by throwing **** on the wall and seeing what sticks. If disclosure can't be open to scrutiny.
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