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Old 15-10-2015, 18:10   #16
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

... or as an alternative to a survey before accepting delivery have a (knowledgeable) representative in your behalf at the yard during the building process. Very common on larger yachts from the pre-stage planning until the boat is ready, or on smaller yachts at least for the last 3 months or so (when the boat is furnished).

Not sure if the 'mass production yards' like Hanse Yachts and Lagoon are set up for this, a lot of 'normal yards' will have no problem with this.

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Old 15-10-2015, 18:36   #17
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

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Originally Posted by CarstenWL View Post
... or as an alternative to a survey before accepting delivery have a (knowledgeable) representative in your behalf at the yard during the building process. Very common on larger yachts from the pre-stage planning until the boat is ready, or on smaller yachts at least for the last 3 months or so (when the boat is furnished).

Not sure if the 'mass production yards' like Hanse Yachts and Lagoon are set up for this, a lot of 'normal yards' will have no problem with this.

Carsten
I would suspect that your second alternative would cost more than the first.
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Old 15-10-2015, 18:42   #18
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

... will most probably cost a bit more but with a (knowledgeable) representative but you gain time because a lot of things are fixed 'along the way' and you have no 'endless list' that has to be fixed after the survey. Also easier for a yard to fix thinks over a longer period of time as they show up compared to 'fix the whole list' when the boat is done. Also a lot of things are easier to fix when you find them early ...

If time is money 'for you' it might be a big advantage ...

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Old 15-10-2015, 19:42   #19
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

I think all of you may be forgetting the key cost management issue of handing new boat Warranty problems....

Especially if it is a sophisticated build...

......LOCATION!

For the first 4 months you should plan a series of short circular trips near factory, so they can service problems cost effectively and without cost to you other than time.

If problems continue.....extend as necessary.

Working with the builder to simplify logistical manpower and material issues will pay dividends in solving the problem with a committed workforce.

The other advantage of doing this.. ......is if things go unworkably bad, ........you are in the right contract jurisdiction to elevate to a legal claim.
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Old 15-10-2015, 19:51   #20
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

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You buy a new car and the starter or stereo craps out and the dealer still takes care of you as they get support from the manufacturer, even though they didn't make the actual part that failed. Too bad most boat manufacturers don't do the same unless it's the actual hull that failed. Fp and lagoon Have terrible after purchase support. I have sent several easy to answer emails and never had an answer. When we had a leopard I could call or email and they would bend over backwards to provide info etc on a 12 year old boat like they just sold it to me.

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When we had our almost 20 year old Seawind we would get replies to our problems directly from the Seawind owner. Some companies keep giving and some take all they can get and give nothing back.

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Old 15-10-2015, 20:01   #21
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

Two, three or sometimes four times a year I am asked to do a pre-delivery survey on a new vessel. In my surveys of 20yr. old boats 30-35 deficiencies are common and many are significant. On a new boat 20 to 25 deficiencies are common and some are significant. Unlike the automotive industry, no authority is watching these guys.
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Old 15-10-2015, 20:57   #22
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

Sounds strange as I have dealt with Simpson Marine in Singapore (Kenneth) is the service manager and he is FANTASTIC and l am now sitting in Thailand and having my boat worked on by Simpson Marine in Thailand (Sebastien) and he also has been FANTASTIC!

My experiences have been with the Lagoon agents who are Simpson Marine in Asia and l can only say good things about all my dealings!


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Old 15-10-2015, 23:48   #23
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

Sadly in the Marine industry it's nieve to think you can just sail away from the dock after a new boat hits the water, from prior experiences you need to stay within reasonably proximity to the factory at least 3 to 6 months to make sure your vessel is "broken in " .

The list of things to fix on a new boat is often several pages , regardless of whichever company you are dealing with.
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Old 15-10-2015, 23:55   #24
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

So, you guys are basically saying Frank should have done this or that beforehand, but what is he to do NOW to remediate the situation? Or is a lawsuit the only alternative for him?

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Old 16-10-2015, 00:29   #25
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

Frank if you purchased the boat through an agent for Lagoon you should be chasing the agent and don't let them give you the run around as my agent (Simpson Marine) gets warranty approval within 48 hours every time.

It may well be your agent that is your real problem!!!


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Old 16-10-2015, 01:22   #26
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

I'm really sorry to hear about all of his hassles. These problems aren't just in the marine industry, it's also in the RV industry. It's sad to say, but the only vehicles I own that have been flawless are a 55 yr old MB, a 1984 Toyota Corolla diesel and a 1997 Camry. Everything else - Chevy truck, Ford T-bird, Ford Ranger, Mustang, VW Rabbit, Scirocco, Beetle have been pretty crappy. The Chevy truck and Mustang have been huge steaming piles of crap.

A friend of mine does PDIs for a couple of local RV dealers and he also repairs all of the defects he finds. It's a conflict of interest, but he's very thorough and reasonable on the repairs, so I guess it's worth it to them to farm it out to him and get all of these defects fixed (sometimes 200 -300 defects in one RV! You'd think there would be better QC in a $250k - $1M RV, but it's just not the case!) before the customer takes delivery and then gets angry over the ridiculous number of flaws after paying what they did and expecting a perfect RV.

The problem is (at least in the RV world) low paid, poorly trained or untrained employees who don't give a crap. There's no other reason to explain how someone can find 100 to 300 defects in workmanship in 1 RV. QC is virtually non-existent.

That's why I'll never buy another new car, truck or RV, much less a new boat.

Let this thread serve as a cautionary tale for anyone else considering buying a new Lagoon. It takes a lot of guts to admit you spent a lot of money and are now fighting to make the thing seaworthy. Hopefully Lagoon management is reading this and taking action to change their attitude. I've heard Leopard gives excellent support, as well as building a very sturdy, reliable vessel.
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Old 16-10-2015, 04:09   #27
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

Lagoon and the dealers are amazing at giving the run around and getting no where to the point where you give up.
I have had abuse from the dealer and factory for getting frustrated that they would not rectify a factory fault.
If you expect Lagoon to care forget it,they see customers as a pain and dont want to know about you, thats apparently the dealers job???


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Old 16-10-2015, 04:28   #28
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

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Mark, stories like Frank's and comments like yours make me smile when I read posts by folks who are set upon buying a brand new boat so that they won't have to worry about things being wrong with their purchase.

One of the best bits of advice ever posted here on CF was that anyone buying a new boat should have it surveyed very critically by a hard nosed surveyor before accepting delivery. Advice, by the way, that is seldom heeded... consider how much better off Frank would have been if he had done so!

Jim
I think Jim's advice here is spot on.... Refusing delivery until your "final approval stamp survey" has been rectified... Would change 6 months of warranty items to 2 weeks...

"I absolutely would love to pay the delivery balance.... Deliver what you promised and I will..."
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Old 16-10-2015, 05:20   #29
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

Frank,

Let me offer you some counter intuitive advice which should help you to see the "light at the end of the tunnel." Although you wish you get satisfaction from Lagoon, and I do believe that it's their responsibility to perform the required warranty repairs, it might be best to do what we've been doing over the past three years. Perform all maintenance and repairs outside the manufacturers network using local technicians and a "do it yourself" method. In the end, you most likely will actually spend less because you wont be wasting time in expensive marinas, get quicker less expensive service especially this time of year when the local techs are looking for work at reduced prices, and learn to do many things yourself and become more self reliant.

This past year, we only spent the following on repairs and wasted less than two hours in a shipyard.

500 euros for two water pumps which I replaced myself
35 euros for labor to replace an impeller
35 euros for the impeller
75 euros for two oil changes which I did myself
1200 euros to replace fridge (our fault, my wife used a hammer to defrost)
200 euros for buffing and waxing products (did myself)
$75 for two water maker filters

That's it less than 2000 euros for an entire 5 month cruising season.... no time wasted waiting for factory technicians in expensive marinas. Sometimes you'll end up spending more money and certainly more frustration, waiting for the free repairs which are rightfully owed to you.

If you're still in the Med, let me recommend some excellent honest shipyards and repair people in places you'd never expect like the Island of Elba Italy or Nausika shipyard in Olbia, Sardinia. Forget about expensive places like Palma, Mallorca.

Ken
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Old 16-10-2015, 05:32   #30
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

Thank you for the heads up on Lagoon France. There is no excuse for such shoddy treatment. When I was with Palmer Johnson we would fly our crews all over the world to repair our boats!
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