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Old 22-10-2015, 00:42   #136
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

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Most of the problems you have described are related to the commissioning process and not to the factory itself.
The issues described in the survey are mostly genuine quality issues and not commissioning related.
Furniture separating, shoddy finish and trim, screws tapped right into the balsa core without sealing, low quality stainless fittings, leaks from hatches or deck fittings in every cabin, leaking hull-deck joint, etc.
There is nothing major or structural in the report. Each item alone is not a big thing but Frank seems to have experienced a ton of these.
As a used boat buyer i live with many of these things. A leaking deck fitting just needs a few minutes of work and a bit Sikaflex. Frank could probably fix quite a few himself but its not something a new boat buyer should have to deal with on a daily basis.

I can understand that he feels like he paid for a nice MB and received a friday afternoon Nissan.
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Old 22-10-2015, 02:10   #137
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

If it was me I'd be asking for a replacement boat or a refund plus interest. Time for a lawyer not a surveyor.
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Old 22-10-2015, 02:11   #138
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

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Originally Posted by rabbi View Post
The issues described in the survey are mostly genuine quality issues and not commissioning related.
Furniture separating, shoddy finish and trim, screws tapped right into the balsa core without sealing, low quality stainless fittings, leaks from hatches or deck fittings in every cabin, leaking hull-deck joint, etc.
There is nothing major or structural in the report. Each item alone is not a big thing but Frank seems to have experienced a ton of these.
As a used boat buyer i live with many of these things. A leaking deck fitting just needs a few minutes of work and a bit Sikaflex. Frank could probably fix quite a few himself but its not something a new boat buyer should have to deal with on a daily basis.

I can understand that he feels like he paid for a nice MB and received a friday afternoon Nissan.
No, most of the problem come from the factory and the poor attention to the quality of building . Just 2 examples. I have some leaks of water in most of the cabins and a big water entrance in the starboard engine room. There is no sealent ( silicon or other ) under any of the stanchions and a hole between the deck and the hull just aside the stairs. You cannot see it if not going under the hull but the hole is big enough so at each wave against this part, some sea water enters the engine room. I have about 1 lb of salt on the pipes in this engine room, this does not come from a few liters of water. Second, Both the screen and the auto pilot are out of order on the fly bridge, the surveyor was surprised as he metioned it is not comon to get this kind of trouble shooting. Not comon if the screen was properly instaled with the silicon around it the prevent from water entering the electronic… B&G do not seem to be bad material, but the material do not work well with water, it,s not made for this purpose.
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Old 22-10-2015, 02:20   #139
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

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If it was me I'd be asking for a replacement boat or a refund plus interest. Time for a lawyer not a surveyor.
I already considered this solution, but i do not wannt a replacement or a refunding, i just want the boat for which i paid to work. If i had purchased the boat in USA it would be quite different, but i did in Canada and same as inFrance, if i want to sue the company, i have to start with some 20 000 $ layer's fees, in some 2 - 3 years, i might win, but i will die of it before winning. I have much better warning potential buyers of Lagoon so maybe the factory will react.
Just a last one : The jammer can stop Ropes from 12 to 14 mm . There fore from the first use of it, the mainsail hailyard extended and is now between 10 and 11 mm in diameter so the jammer does not stop it anymore, this halyard get caught very often in the mast in 3 places … Instead of offering to change the halyard or the jammer the factory suggested i add some materioal around it in the places where i usely block it ! Have you ever heard of such a stupidity ? and i have some more if you want some
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Old 22-10-2015, 02:42   #140
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

Frank go after the agent as he did your commissioning...


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Old 22-10-2015, 03:28   #141
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

I must be sure that In Canada, the agent should mandatory have done a commisioning on the boat, then i will consider asking help from a lawyer. The only thing he did before delivering the boat to me was an inventory, not a quality control, not any test at sea etc… When i started to complain there was a lot of bad connection, he replied to me he could not control the connections, there are much too much on a boat, it's easier to see when it does not work when a trouble shooting occcurs...
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Old 22-10-2015, 04:43   #142
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

This quote is from the conclusion on your survey:

"Most of the findings are of cosmetic nature or at least should not hinder the planned Atlantic crossing. Exception are the two transmissions / saildrive units and the gas locker installation which is not just incorrect but unsafe. The access to the emergency hatches should also be demonstrated prior to a crossing."

Although I sympathize with your frustration over dealing with primarily cosmetics fit and finish issues, you need to move on. There's nothing listed in your survey that can't be repaired at a minimal cost by local workers or by doing it yourself. You didn't purchase a $3,000,000 boat with all the upgrades, you purchased a less expensive model.... even though most would hardly consider spending over one million dollars cheaper. But this is the reality. $1,000,000 is not much money when buying a 52ft catamaran yacht. To put in in perspective.... our Oyster originally cost $1,400,000 back in 2002 fully equipped. Your Lagoon is twice the size, what do you expect?

The gas locker can easily be remedied in just a couple of hours, and the same with the chainplate backing plates for a very minimal cost, probably less than one day of mooring fees.

Get used to it, you purchased a boat..... There will always be repairs and issues to deal with.... Every day.

Replacing a halyard takes only a few minutes following a visit to a local chandlery... It's not an item that will stop you in your tracks and can only be handled by an authorized Lagoon repair technician.
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Old 22-10-2015, 05:08   #143
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

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Just a last one : The jammer can stop Ropes from 12 to 14 mm . There fore from the first use of it, the mainsail hailyard extended and is now between 10 and 11 mm in diameter so the jammer does not stop it anymore, this halyard get caught very often in the mast in 3 places … Instead of offering to change the halyard or the jammer the factory suggested i add some materioal around it in the places where i usely block it ! Have you ever heard of such a stupidity ? and i have some more if you want some
What puzzles me is not so much the ignorance they show or what cheap 'solutions' they offer.
Lagoon builds a few hundret boats per year. They should know what ropes, screws, caulkings, faucets, etc to use for a marine environment.

Is this what Lagoon currently delivers as their standard quality and do the owners of all the other boats just ignore such issues?
Or do the folks at Lagoon sometimes think 'today i feel like building a lemon. Get out the cheap screws, the chinese deck fittings and forget all sealing!' ?

My 15yr old 410 certainly did not show many similar issues.
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Old 22-10-2015, 05:17   #144
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

Adding a cover to a halyard in the region where it interacts with the stopper is not a low quality solution. This is done all the time these days as new fibers make it possible to use smaller diameter line with greater strength and less weight aloft. Adding a section of cover to make the stopper work is a realistic solution to this problem. A smaller stopper is not the solution because the stopper should be sized for the expected working load. So at least on that issue the advice from the builder/broker is not stupid. They should have done themselves but it is not that hard to do it yourself. Just make sure the cover is properly whipped so it goes through the mast easily without fraying, You can probably get the cover from a Dacron line of appropriate size for best UV resistance.

If the halyard hangs up inside the mast that is something else and probably larger rope will not help.
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Old 22-10-2015, 05:27   #145
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

Frank,

I'll give you another example as to why it might be time to make a decision as to whether or not boating is for you:

Six years ago, a friend and I each independently decided to purchase identical used Hunter 450 yachts for the intended purpose of coastal California sailing. Each boat had identical issues pop up, I won't go into detail about them. I chose to fix the problems, enjoy the boat for what it was, eventually sell it and move on to a different boat costing substancially more than the Hunter. My friend instead, became increasing frustrated as the problems popped up, became afraid to sail his boat, eventually sold the boat and has to date. .. given up sailing. Most of the problems were minor, nagging issues, but he developed a "what's next," mindset. Will it be the engine, will the rig break? Etc. None of these things actually happened, but he'd lost all trust in the boat over the small stuff like waste hoses.

You have a choice to make... Be frustrated and afraid, or do it yourself and move on.

Ken
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Old 22-10-2015, 05:35   #146
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

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Adding a cover to a halyard in the region where it interacts with the stopper is not a low quality solution. This is done all the time these days as new fibers make it possible to use smaller diameter line with greater strength and less weight aloft.
Racers use expensive small diameter ropes and add a cover for the jammers . That is a viable solution to their quest for ulimate weight savings.

as i understand the problem here: lagoon has provided a cheap 12mm halyard that has stretched so much its now more a 10mm line and does no longer fit the jammer.
In that case i would call that solution a cheap fix.

Maybe they excluded running rigging wear from their warranty all together but still a halyard should not wear in 6 months.
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Old 22-10-2015, 05:58   #147
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

It's no wonder a manufacturer might produce shoddy goods knowing that its customers will accept them, make the necessary repairs, and excuse and defend the manufacturer.

My company's customers expect more, and they get more.

The problem with boat builders is that repeat customers are not very important to them. And as nobody (OP excluded) wants to talk down their own boat, word of mouth isn't a big problem for them, either.
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Old 22-10-2015, 07:41   #148
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

Frank
Who did you actually pay when you brought the boat, if you paid the agent then he is accountable.


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Old 22-10-2015, 08:49   #149
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

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Frank
Who did you actually pay when you brought the boat, if you paid the agent then he is accountable.


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The agent may be accountable, but it's the builders reputation at stake here.


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Old 22-10-2015, 09:01   #150
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Re: Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

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I already considered this solution, but i do not wannt a replacement or a refunding, i just want the boat for which i paid to work.
If you already made this decision you should act accordingly.
There is not much you can do about the cosmetics nor will Lagoon replace the boat without a very long legal fight.

So start fixing all the little nasties. All the small leaks and corroding screws, faucets, etc can be done by yourself as time allows. Do not wait for Lagoon to do it, the boat will suffer from every leak. The cost is minimal and i guess the dealer / lagoon will more likely refund these expenses than have a technician come to do it.
If you look at it from another perspective this can even be fun. At least you have something to do in every port and have a reason to visit the chandlery.
Certainly this should not stop you from cruising.

When finished you will know your boat much better. If you want to do long term cruising you will need to learn how to fix things anyway. Things wear and break on a daily basis. Any day without new items on the todo list is a good day.

Keep the big $$ or complex items for the dealer. If they don't accept responsibility you can still take them to court.

the milky saildrive oil is another story. This typically comes from damages shaft seals and these don't typically wear that fast. These are most often damaged by picking up a fishing line or net. The milky oil will soon kill your saildrive gear and its very unlikely that you will get reimbursement from lagoon.
So change the SD oil now and have the seals changed asap or budget for a new saildrive.


Anyway, i really appreciate that you report these issues here. keep us posted!
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