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Old 18-01-2016, 14:48   #1
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Lagoon 440 and Deans 440 Displacement

Hi, I am a new member on the cusp of purchasing a 40-45ft cat.

I am seeking advice as 2 of the cats I am keen on have far higher displacements than other similar sized boats - they are the Lagoon 440 and the Deans 440. They have displacements of 12-13000 Kg whilst other 44ft cats seem to range from 7000-9000Kg. Can you share your insight as to whether the relatively higher displacement has a substantial impact on light weather sailing and how it impacts sailing to windward; any other impact - fuel consumption ?

I have also read on this forum some concern of the construction history of the Deans. The one I'm looking at is a 2007 - another topic which I'd appreciate any input on.

thanking you,,,,,
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Old 18-01-2016, 15:55   #2
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Re: Lagoon 440 and Deans 440 Displacement

I think you may find that that 12-13,000 is lightship for the Lagoon and cruising weight for the Dean

The Lagoon 440 is a big, fat bottomed, wide beamed boat, the classic condomaran with all of the resultant performance effects.

If you want to compare likely performance of cats, a good place to go is multihulldynamics.

For the L440 and Dean 440 Arrow they give:

Disp: 13,500 v 10,000
LWL/BeamHull: 7.54 v 9.11
SA/Disp: 17.84 v 24.70
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Old 18-01-2016, 16:03   #3
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Re: Lagoon 440 and Deans 440 Displacement

Just sailed on a Lagoon 40 S2 yesterday in 18+ TWS and flat seas and I felt like we were dragging a few spare tires. Granted this could be due to many circumstances other than design performance but in the same circumstances an earlier sail on an FP 44 yielded a significant contrast in performance.

Gary
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Old 18-01-2016, 16:09   #4
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Re: Lagoon 440 and Deans 440 Displacement

Generally
Heavier cats:
more accommodation and amenities
Worse performance
More expensive fuel
Larger rig and sails
Less expensive
Better $/kg value
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Old 18-01-2016, 16:51   #5
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Re: Lagoon 440 and Deans 440 Displacement

I know nothing about Dean, but sailed a Lagoon 440 from Europe to Bora-Bora during the past 3 years. I agree with all of the above, except for performance: 28 days from Panama to the Marquises (4000+ miles), knowing that the first 1,000 miles where are less than 100 miles per day.

I can also compare a L440 to FP Bahia 46, more or less the same generation. There is WAY more space in the Lagoon and we cruise at the same speed with 15kts side wind.

Another aspect is how much time you spend anchored vs. sailing. 2 ocean passages + 2 x 1000 miles + a few longer sails, this is about 6% of the time at sea. Or take a Tahiti to Bora-Bora sail (140NM), whether it is 17.5 hours (at 8kts) or 21 hours (at 6.7), you still count the night and have to prepare and rest the same.

Maybe I am a bit religious about Lagoon, this because we are selling ours. All info here: Lagoon 440 catamaran for sale

We are in Bora-Bora, probably the coolest place on earth to find a Lagoon 440. Welcome on board.
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Old 19-01-2016, 17:53   #6
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Re: Lagoon 440 and Deans 440 Displacement

If it was choice between only those two it would be Lagoon first and second. I am rather embarrassed to admit that we owned a Dean, bought new, for a while and found significant construction issues. A survey confirmed these. Many shall likely recall the legal situation of a few years ago when Peter Dean Snr and Peter Dean Jnr were challenged about inappropriate materials etc etc.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon440Bora View Post
I know nothing about Dean, but sailed a Lagoon 440 from Europe to Bora-Bora during the past 3 years. I agree with all of the above, except for performance: 28 days from Panama to the Marquises (4000+ miles), knowing that the first 1,000 miles where are less than 100 miles per day.

I can also compare a L440 to FP Bahia 46, more or less the same generation. There is WAY more space in the Lagoon and we cruise at the same speed with 15kts side wind.

Another aspect is how much time you spend anchored vs. sailing. 2 ocean passages + 2 x 1000 miles + a few longer sails, this is about 6% of the time at sea. Or take a Tahiti to Bora-Bora sail (140NM), whether it is 17.5 hours (at 8kts) or 21 hours (at 6.7), you still count the night and have to prepare and rest the same.

Maybe I am a bit religious about Lagoon, this because we are selling ours. All info here: Lagoon 440 catamaran for sale

We are in Bora-Bora, probably the coolest place on earth to find a Lagoon 440. Welcome on board.
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Old 01-02-2016, 04:05   #7
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Re: Lagoon 440 and Deans 440 Displacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post

The Lagoon 440 is a big, fat bottomed, wide beamed boat, the classic condomaran with all of the resultant performance effects.
We buddy boated with a Dean 44 in Panama. We were faster than them by at least o,5 knots / all points of sail. That came as a surprise to us because it "looks" fast with its thin hulls and angled mast.
It took us 16 1/2 days to cross from Galápagos to Marquesas, it took them 25 days...

FYI, we also buddy sailed for over a year with 2 FP Belize 43. And guess what? we were faster than them too... Not bad for " the classic condomaran with all of the resultant performance effects"
The owner of one of the Belize 43 thought just like you... that is, before we started buddy sailing
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Old 03-02-2016, 12:12   #8
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Re: Lagoon 440 and Deans 440 Displacement

Lagoon sold 400+ units of the 440. As far as I know, this is a record for a boat of this size. Should be a reason for this.
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