Lagoon 421

[Heath68]

Originally Posted by 2Hulls

... did you factor in maintenance and operating costs? I bought my boat for less than US$500 in late 2006 and have spent an average of US$30K/year since in maintenance/operating/improvements costs. And I do 99% of the maintenance/improvements myself, avoiding labor costs.

Good luck,
Dave

Hi Dave, some useful points as always.. if you didn't do 99% and did a more normal percentage, do you think your maintenance costs would be in line with the "good advice" some give that your boat will cost you about 10% of purchase price per year to maintain?

And do you think this is more like 15-20% for some makes? and 5-10% for others?? if so I would value your opinion on which makes would be in which category
Heath

[Heath68]

Originally Posted by rajsach

any thoughts on the lack of a crossbeam on the 421

Hi.. reading (perhaps wrongly) between the lines you have had Don’t like bimini
Sinks too small
Electrical "issues"
Potential to rot
And the 470 is a much better boat

I think on that basis the lack of crossbeam may not be your biggest concern. IMO if you ask in a thread about a boat and you get a good number of staunch supporters and (cause you will get some) some critics chances are its worth investigating. Having got to the bottom of the 1st page it doesn't seem many are gagging to say go for it... just a thought but don't shoot me for those thoughts..

[2Hulls]

Originally Posted by Heath68

Hi Dave, some useful points as always.. if you didn't do 99% and did a more normal percentage, do you think your maintenance costs would be in line with the "good advice" some give that your boat will cost you about 10% of purchase price per year to maintain?

And do you think this is more like 15-20% for some makes? and 5-10% for others?? if so I would value your opinion on which makes would be in which category
Heath

Hi Heath - I think estimates of what it will cost to maintain a boat are swags at best. Boats and owners differ and many owners will admit - me included - the costs are more than they expected. I don't know what the 10% was based on. And what is "maintenance"? Does this include elective modifications or just the bare minimum to keep the boat in the same general shape? Regardless, if I'm below the 10% it's for at least two reasons: my boat cost more than the average cruising cat and I save a lot on labor.

But my $US30K was for maintenance/operating/improvements costs. This includes everything except for my mortgage, like insurance, fuel, hauling, and marina costs when we're not cruising, mooring balls when required, and customs/immigration fees. So I'm way below 10% for maintenance alone because of all the other costs in my annual expenses.

In my US$30K/year are some elective things I didn't absolutely have to do - like upgrade my electronics and add a sprit and code 0 and an extra sym spi. I'm doing some refit right now that involves awlgrip-ing all my white aluminim - boom, bimini structure, cross beam, davits, solar panel structure, spreaders. So there are some big expense items I have done that I may not have to do again. So I'm concluding the 10% maintenance prediction is high if you do your own labor. I don't know what a "normal percentage" of labor costs is. Frankly, I don't see how people can afford not doing a large percentage of maintenance themselves nor why they would want to - I want to know how it was done and trust my own work. Yes, perhaps my costs would get closer to 10%/year if I included bought labor.

I would be cautious to predict that some "makes" will be more or less expensive to maintain than others. This is because other than the hulls and structures and rudders and furniture, etc., i.e., the "custom" portions of every individual model, most boats are made of the same sub-components. Volvo, Yanmar, Universal, etc. diesels; Force 10, Eno, etc. stoves; Garmin, Raymarine, Furuno, etc. electronics; a handful of mast makers; a couple hand fulls of sail makers, etc. You get the picture. You'd have to dig down to see whether a builder used good goods or cheap goods for the piece parts. If the boat has Jabsco heads, you're gonna be spending money on them more frequently than if they were Raritan heads.

Of greater certainty is that bigger boats cost more to maintain. Bigger sails cost more to replace. Longer lines. More bottom paint. More fuel. More of everything, it seems. And if you pay by the hour for a yard to paint your bottoms, it takes more hours labor in addition to more paint. This is intuitive.

This is becoming a ramble so I'll stop. Sorry I can't tell you that Make X will cost more to maintain nor how much more.

Dave

[Heath68]

Originally Posted by 2Hulls

Hi Heath - I think estimates of what it will cost to maintain a boat are swags at best. Boats and owners differ and many owners will admit - me included - the costs are more than they expected. I don't know what the 10% was based on. And what is "maintenance"? Does this include elective modifications or just the bare minimum to keep the boat in the same general shape? Regardless, if I'm below the 10% it's for at least two reasons: my boat cost more than the average cruising cat and I save a lot on labor.

But my $US30K was for maintenance/operating/improvements costs. This includes everything except for my mortgage, like insurance, fuel, hauling, and marina costs when we're not cruising, mooring balls when required, and customs/immigration fees. So I'm way below 10% for maintenance alone because of all the other costs in my annual expenses.

In my US$30K/year are some elective things I didn't absolutely have to do - like upgrade my electronics and add a sprit and code 0 and an extra sym spi. I'm doing some refit right now that involves awlgrip-ing all my white aluminim - boom, bimini structure, cross beam, davits, solar panel structure, spreaders. So there are some big expense items I have done that I may not have to do again. So I'm concluding the 10% maintenance prediction is high if you do your own labor. I don't know what a "normal percentage" of labor costs is. Frankly, I don't see how people can afford not doing a large percentage of maintenance themselves nor why they would want to - I want to know how it was done and trust my own work. Yes, perhaps my costs would get closer to 10%/year if I included bought labor.

I would be cautious to predict that some "makes" will be more or less expensive to maintain than others. This is because other than the hulls and structures and rudders and furniture, etc., i.e., the "custom" portions of every individual model, most boats are made of the same sub-components. Volvo, Yanmar, Universal, etc. diesels; Force 10, Eno, etc. stoves; Garmin, Raymarine, Furuno, etc. electronics; a handful of mast makers; a couple hand fulls of sail makers, etc. You get the picture. You'd have to dig down to see whether a builder used good goods or cheap goods for the piece parts. If the boat has Jabsco heads, you're gonna be spending money on them more frequently than if they were Raritan heads.

Of greater certainty is that bigger boats cost more to maintain. Bigger sails cost more to replace. Longer lines. More bottom paint. More fuel. More of everything, it seems. And if you pay by the hour for a yard to paint your bottoms, it takes more hours labor in addition to more paint. This is intuitive.

This is becoming a ramble so I'll stop. Sorry I can't tell you that Make X will cost more to maintain nor how much more.

Dave

Nothing like a good Saturday (night for me at least) ramble but yes I was talking maintenance/operating/improvements (not new engines though). Its good to know and I think if I work on 10% I shouldn't be too far off... thanks