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Old 09-02-2015, 12:42   #16
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Re: Lagoon 421

As recommended above, take a look at the L400. Similar sailing, similar space, much more modern design the same as the 450, under 12m so cheaper to haul and berth.
Have a look at the online brochures and pics and notice the L380 and L421 are the only current models still with round furniture, which is hard to get comfortable or lay on, as well as no headlinings and not many hull linings, so worse insulation and a colder feel. i.e. The saloon ceiling is flow coated with a couple of timber strips over. A cruise ready 400 with larger engines, folding props. Additional refrigeration, dinghy, AIS, radar, and a few other factory options should be around EU300K, and add EU20K for solar, WM and all safety gear and household stuff.
That's vat free, no duty and not tax so where you register it will effect those fees. Probably BVIs is a good option.
We've bought two new lagoons ex factory through Javier at catamarans Barcelona. Have a chat to him.
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Old 09-02-2015, 14:29   #17
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Re: Lagoon 421

"as well as no head linings and not many hull linings"
My L421 (Late 2010) has head linings the same as my L450 (2013).
Can not remember what the 420 was finished like but, 421 definitely has linings similar to current 400/450.
The square finished furniture definitely looks more modern, as to comfort I am not so positive. I still have not found a way to sit in saloon and watch a full video in comfort yet in the L450.
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Old 09-02-2015, 14:52   #18
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Re: Lagoon 421

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any thoughts on the lack of a crossbeam on the 421
Structurally, Lagoon was able to incorporate this aspect because the bridgedeck is extended pretty far out towards the bows. The center "nacelle" can thus support the rig loads without the need for a crossbeam. As already described, the tramps are small. The extended bridgedeck is also why the interior volume is so large. I was told by a salesman trying to sell me a 420 that the 420's interior volume was bigger than a 440's - for this reason. He may be right and based on my time on my friend's 421, the interior volume is a lot more than on my 47 foot cat - because my bows are over a third of the total length.

So, not having a front crossbeam saves weight, but having a longer bridgedeck costs weight. Who knows which is lighter? Pick yer poison. The proponents of centered weights - short bridgedecks and long bows and sterns - argue that this configuration results in less pitching, thus less air disruption over the sails, thus more weatherly speed, and more comfort to boot. A glance at consensus or self proclaimed "performance" cats indeed shows long bows.

But this is not a performance boat and those placing priorities on livability vs performance may be well served. Then the discussion focuses from cat to cat on livability vs livability. Here, wise male partners are wisest to defer to the Admirals......... Just nod yer heads. Yes, dear.

JMHO

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Old 09-02-2015, 15:14   #19
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Re: Lagoon 421

My L421 is a 4 cabin version in Whitsunday Escape Charter fleet. The forward cabins on the L421 are a bigger and more usable than the Port forward cabin on my L450 owners version. I am not saying the 421 is bigger any where else but the forward cabin / toilet shower area is.
So from forward bedroom size ONLY the L421 is better (more room) than the L450 4 cabin.
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Old 10-02-2015, 07:59   #20
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Re: Lagoon 421

Thanks for the replies...

Monte & Paulin Oz - Thats good info. I agree that the squared furniture is more modern but never thought about the comfort level of rounded furniture. Guess I'll have to test it out for myself. I wonder if lagoon is planning to update the interior of the 421 soon in order to bring it up to par with the rest of the models. I can't find any info on this online. I may try to query a dealer about this.
I've sailed the 400 before and agree that it sails well for what it is. I've not sailed the 421 yet but been on one a couple of times and they do seem roomy and comfortable...and thats what the admiral wants
I'll definately charter one before making any decisions

Monte- The prices you quoted on the L400 seem very resonable but I'm not sure I'll be able to replicate those on this side of the pond based on what I've seen online.

Dave- Thanks for the info on the crossbeam.

On a different note... I saw an ad online where the dealer was touting the fact that the boat had not been sailed across the Atlantic but rather transported on a ship. How important is this? I understand that transporting the boat will result in less wear and tear but sailing it across seems like a good way to shake things out on a new boat. Thoughts?
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Old 10-02-2015, 17:56   #21
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Re: Lagoon 421

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That's a good cruising plan, Raj - it will take you quite a while to wear it out.

With a US$500K budget, I suggest you not limit your choices to Lagoon - and especially not on the perceived worth of service/warranty coverage. You're not going to get a 421 new for that much, which suggests you intend to buy used. Warranty coverage on used boats is non-existent, I propose, no matter the manufacturer. But buying used has been a proven strategy over, and over, and over - again, no matter the manufacturer. Service on boats becomes essentially manufacturer homogeneous after whatever warranty coverage applies because boats at their core are merely assemblies of components built by sub-manufacturers and literally, we're all in it together. A diesel is a Yanmar, Volvo, or other. It is not a Lagoon. The only time you might need the original manufacturer after their warranty is for stuff like rudders. Manufacturer-specific components. In my case, I replaced both rudders with custom built rudders for half the cost of OEM rudders from Catana. And they're better.

Having identified a budget, did you factor in maintenance and operating costs? I bought my boat for less than US$500 in late 2006 and have spent an average of US$30K/year since in maintenance/operating/improvements costs. And I do 99% of the maintenance/improvements myself, avoiding labor costs.

Good luck,
Dave
That's a bit more than I would have thought as normal. $30k per year PLUS the costs of cruising..... I'm gonna have to figure on a bigger monthly cruising budget.
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Old 10-02-2015, 18:03   #22
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Re: Lagoon 421

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That's a bit more than I would have thought as normal. $30k per year PLUS the costs of cruising..... I'm gonna have to figure on a bigger monthly cruising budget.
"Maintenance/operating/improvement" costs includes the costs of cruising. It does not include the costs I would have spent anyway, like food, but likewise does not include the savings of cruising - like automobile fuel not bought, home utilities avoided, marina fees not needed, and clothes not worn....

Your mileage may vary....

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Old 12-02-2015, 18:04   #23
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Re: Lagoon 421

So I outlined my schedule and budget above and you know I'm going to be in the carribean close to a lot of charter bases. Should I just charter every time ??
I may start a new thread with this question...😏


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Old 12-02-2015, 18:06   #24
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Re: Lagoon 421

PS. Realistically I'll probably sail about 70-80 days a year in 10-14 day increments


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Old 12-02-2015, 23:22   #25
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Re: Lagoon 421

We prefer our 420 over the 421 which has a lowered bimini and pop up helm. The 420 configuration in our opinion is the best of all the Lagoons, although it was less popular than the later models, (400/421) and the bridgedeck Lagoons (440 and up).
Unless you are hard over on a newer boat think about a 420. Nothing wrong with the sailing performance. Somebody gave the original 420 a bad wrap and it's stuck. (Hybrid diesel electric power).




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Old 13-02-2015, 07:15   #26
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Re: Lagoon 421

Thanks for the info Bob


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Old 13-02-2015, 07:52   #27
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Re: Lagoon 421

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So I outlined my schedule and budget above and you know I'm going to be in the carribean close to a lot of charter bases. Should I just charter every time ??
That's could be a good option - and cheaper - depending on why you want a boat.

A lot of people - me included - get much of their enjoyment of boat ownership in tinkering and puttering and futzing and all-around molding their boat into their own masterpiece. A hobby.

If this does not appeal to you, then "serial chartering" could be an attractive and much cheaper alternative with the added benefits of more easily visiting other exotic locations and sailing different boats.

But in addition to not having the "hobby" aspects, by only chartering you miss the full monty cruising lifestyle of being independent, adventurous, and relying on your own resourcefulness.

JMHO

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Old 13-02-2015, 16:27   #28
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Re: Lagoon 421

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Somebody gave the original 420 a bad wrap and it's stuck. (Hybrid diesel electric power).
Bob - did Lagoon build any 420s with diesels from the factory? If so, did those have the "step" below the stern water line that appeared to be extra buoyancy to support the extra weight of the hybrid diesel electric power components? - which the 421s do not have?

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Old 13-02-2015, 23:34   #29
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Lagoon 421

Ours is a diesel ex factory. The hull shape is the same. I doubt that it makes much difference anyway.

I don't know if "extra buoyancy" is the reason for the shape, that's somebody's assumption probably. I think that any extra drag would be minimal given the overall shape and dimensions of the boat.

They say the 421 has some redesign to the hull, and I expect that's true. As to how much difference it makes, who knows. There are lots of variables. In my view it comes into the "who cares?" category. These are extremely comfortable cruising boats (Lagoons), easily handled with good sailing and motoring performance. End of story.

What you will find with the 421 and with diesel powered 420s is the waterline is wrong. I expect it's because the factory haven't accounted for the different trim without the batteries for the hybrid version. Diesel powered boats are down by the bow and it looks wrong. I had my waterline corrected.

If you buy a new 421 demand that they get the waterline right before you sign. I've had 421 owners complain that getting this corrected under warranty after market is a problem. Why they didn't correct it on the 421 I don't know?


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Old 14-02-2015, 07:56   #30
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Re: Lagoon 421

What you will find with the 421 and with diesel powered 420s is the waterline is wrong. I expect it's because the factory haven't accounted for the different trim without the batteries for the hybrid version. Diesel powered boats are down by the bow and it looks wrong. I had my waterline corrected.

If you buy a new 421 demand that they get the waterline right before you sign. I've had 421 owners complain that getting this corrected under warranty after market is a problem. Why they didn't correct it on the 421 I don't know?


Bob
What do you mean by the waterline is wrong. I'm assuming you mean that the lack of the weight of the batteries at the stern shifts the center of gravity of the boat forward and therefore the bow sits lower in the water than it should . How does that effect the boat adversely? How do you correct it?

Raj





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