Lagoon 420 Owners & Fans

[ess105]

Lot's of interest, it seems, for the Lagoon 420. This thread is a hangout for owners (current or future) to hang out and get in touch.

If you're a current, future or possible owner, please introduce yourself, and let us know your aspirarions.

For my part, I am the owner of Hull #42 which I intend to name "Dignity". I will have Dignity in charter for a few years (with CatCo) whereupon my wife and I intend to live aboard and cruise.

Steve

[Quiet Riot 420]

We're waiting with anticipation for hull #11, the "Martha R", and will be with TMM. It will be a 4 cabin cat, and we plan to use it to escape Michigan winters for some time each year. Check it out at www.MarthaRcharters.com. Looking forward to more info from other owners. We put our deposit down 2 years ago in Annapolis, and have spent many hours looking, planning, waiting for the day the boat will arrive. Doug and Cathy

[JSchantz]

Originally Posted by Quiet Riot 420

We're waiting with anticipation for hull #11, the "Martha R", and will be with TMM. It will be a 4 cabin cat, and we plan to use it to escape Michigan winters for some time each year. Check it out at default. Looking forward to more info from other owners. We put our deposit down 2 years ago in Annapolis, and have spent many hours looking, planning, waiting for the day the boat will arrive. Doug and Cathy

I have reserved your boat for charter in July. It doesn't have A/C, but will there be fans in the cabins?
Thanks,

Jeff Schantz

[sail2wind]

Jeff,

We will be on the Martha R for 11 days in the end of June. The Martha R will have A/C. Douglas is installing it in Tortola. TMM is not listing it with A/C until it is installed. If you have any queations contact Douglas directly. No A/C would be a deal breaker for us, we have been in BVI in June, sleeping without A/C can be challenging.

Evan

[cjenkins]

We are hull #77 and just got the bad news that our delivery date (from the factory) has been pushed back from July '07 to September '07. Despite the delay, we're very excited about the boat. We haven't finalized a name, yet, but we're working on it.

We will be at Annapolis over the weekend. I can't stay for the demo sail, but my wife will.

Like Doug, we will be putting the boat into charter with TMM. I've had some contact with Doug before and he's very knowledgeable and helpful. I think the parts co-op is a great idea. There's at least some strength in numbers and we can all learn from each other's experience/research/etc.
The 'electric main drives' thread has been useful to follow. I hope this one is as good.

Charlie

[ess105]

I'll talk to CatCo about their perspective on the spare parts pool for the L420s.

Incidentally, yesterday, I received a delivery date of March 9th, 2007 for Dignity. They have now listed her as hull #20. Not sure what's up. I do know there is a US Hull count which is separate to the manufacturers hull count which may explain the difference.

Steve

[EdKangeter]

Originally Posted by ess105

I'll talk to CatCo about their perspective on the spare parts pool for the L420s.

Incidentally, yesterday, I received a delivery date of March 9th, 2007 for Dignity. They have now listed her as hull #20. Not sure what's up. I do know there is a US Hull count which is separate to the manufacturers hull count which may explain the difference.

Steve

Did you ever get your boat? If so, what do you think of her? I sold my Lagoon 41 in 2000 and I'm looking to get back into a Cat for cruising...

[ess105]

Originally Posted by EdKangeter

Did you ever get your boat? If so, what do you think of her? I sold my Lagoon 41 in 2000 and I'm looking to get back into a Cat for cruising...

Yes. She entered the fleet last August and we finally managed to spend a week aboard just a few weeks ago. Here is the critique that I posted on my own blog :

We’ve been asked by a few folks for a critique of the boat. So here I go with what we liked and what we didn’t. The context of this critique is our needs for our boat. Those with different requirements will have to take this into account. It’s personal. So before we get to my pros and cons I want to recap what we were looking for in a boat.
First and foremost, our boat will be our home. We wanted a boat we would be comfortable living in at anchor, on a mooring and occasionally in dock. Second, while we originally weren’t thinking about an ecological boat, the Lagoon 420 appealed to us in a very big way with it’s great potential for regeneration and platform for solar power. Third came performance. It doesn’t matter too much to us as when we finally move aboard, time will not be our problem. We’ll be in no rush. But to be fair, nor do we want a bus.
So what did we like:

• Spaciousness & layout. This is the first thing that hits you and it all works very well. The galley, being in the cabin and facing out to the back complete with sliding window as well as the helm being close to the living space keeps everyone together and social. The boat feels very roomy and light. Not only is there a lot of space, it feels bigger than it’s size. The right-angle seating works very well allowing all sorts of seating positions depending on sun direction and whim. Living in the owners cabin exceeded our imaginations. The ventilation was excellent. Waking up seeing where you are through the big side windows you get on Lagoon’s is priceless. While feeling quite cosy in the bunk, seeing the whole length of the hull stretch out ahead provides an amazing sense of space. The guest suites were well laid out and while not coming close to the space of the owners hull they still had the benefits of visibility, ventilation and comfort.
• Single handed helm. This works very well. The arrangement of lines is very important as if not carefully thought out they could easily get tangled. Hats off to the folks at CatCo who had left the lines organized very well. On the first day I managed to tangle up the lines on the winches a couple of times but that soon stopped. It was just a matter of learning the right direction to pull from and once learned it became subconcious very quickly. What was nice was that although it was set up very well for single handing, two could work the lines when tacking and gybing very well without being crowded. As mentioned above, the fact that the helm is in the cabin is a big plus for us. Keeps us together.
• Sailing performance. This was a big surprise. Reading the (perhaps third hand) accounts on the web I expected a slow boat. She wasn’t a racer but she certainly flew. We didn’t get a chance to sail her in light winds which I don’t expect her to do well. The wind speeds during our trip were typically in the 16-22 knot range and only dropped below when we had a wind shadow from a nearby island. We typically managed just below half the wind speed and that was including the speed loss due to regeneration.
• Regeneration. Another surprise. Had expected the output to be fairly low - again based on indirect accounts. For example, on one day we were on a reach in 18 knots of wind making a smidge over 8 knots through the water making 12A at 72V on each engine. That’s practically 1.5kW of power. Now I fully expect losses to erode this but I am now fully convinced of this boats regeneration capabilities on longer sails. I’m quite excited by the prospect of longer crossings without having to run stinky engines to get the power to run fridges, autopilots, etc. Once we put on solar cells we’ll be able to survive the windless days too. The one downside to the regeneration is it is a bit tricky to tune. One has to find the sweet spot on the throttle where regeneration is maximized. That can be hard to find and it has to be adjusted from time to time as conditions change.
• Stability. Dignity was remarkably stable. That being said I never motor anything but the shortest distances without putting sail up and would never motor directly into wind which always causes problems. With these habits embedded we never really had a bad time. We had been told that the week we were there was one of the worst they had in while but we never noticed - in fact we had a whale of a time (that is a funny expression - I’ll have to look it up). We were allowed to develop bad habits of leaving things around and they stay where you left them even when you’re going over the bumps. Speaking of which, the forward nacelle seems to do a very good job of dampening the odd occasion when we had hull slaps. Much less of a boom than our previous experiences on cats.
• Quiet running. Our ears were blessed. Even when the genset kicks in it’s hard to hear. Nice.
• Hatches. I was really impressed with the low profile hatches. Significantly reduced chance of stubbed toes. As mentioned previously they are well positioned allowing plenty of ventilation. We simply had no need to run the aircon anywhere bar the marina which was chosen for it’s lack of wind. And even then it was not that necessary.

So what didn’t we like

• Coming home. By my reckoning the trip was about 9 years and 51 weeks too short. This can and will be fixed. Having said that it was nice to come home and see the boys even with the mess and mysteries presented.
• Setting anchor. This is a real case of a plus being a minus. When setting anchor I am used to using the engines to drive the anchor into the sand and test it. Typically this is done by keeping an eye on the engine revs and an ear to the sound of the engine so that the power applied is right. So on Dignity with no rev meters and no noise from the motors bar the swish of water the old techniques can’t be used. This may just be a matter of getting used to new signals. If there’s a chance of getting a reading of revs up to the helm I may look into this too.
• Duration motoring on batteries. This was not as good as it should be. We know the G2 upgrade is coming along which sets very clear expectations on this. No specific dates on when this upgrade gets put in but the month of June is being mentioned.
• Space at stern for dinghy. To improve interior space, the Lagoon 420s have steep sugar scoops (stairs) at the stern of each hull. This reduces the distance between the rear of the saloon and the dock. Turns out this doesn’t leave enough room to leave the dinghy up on the davits when docking at Nanny Cay as the power tower is in the way. This is likely to be the case elsewhere too. This adds an additional activity when docking - ie, lowering the dinghy so it sits between the hulls. I am sure this will just become habit and a non issue in time.
• Sugar scoop railing. A rail on the side of the sugar scoops would be very useful as an additional dinghy attachment point as well as helping people in an out of the dinghy. We had little problems without this but I’m thinking of visitors less used to the water environment and, I confess, the nights when our own legs are less stable.
• Sailcars. Just like our monohull, assistance at the mast is required getting the mainsail down. I have been on boats where the mainsail drops without assistance which I find a pleasure. Requiring one less person to do any task is a plus. Chances are this may just be a matter of applying a little lubricant to the track.
• Lighting oven. This turned out to be a bit of a pain with matches. Maybe we’re just being softy land-lubbers. Going to bring along one of those oven lighters next time.

Surprises. I thought I’d mentioned a few surprises. Expectations certainly get set by what one hears and reads so I think it’s worth pointing out what surprised us.

• Sailing performance. According to many the boat is slow. As far as we are concerned and certainly as far as our needs go, she flew.
• Wet vessel. Had heard she was a wet vessel. We had plenty of rain and I now have no idea what people are talking about. Everything inside stayed dry during and after rain. When I sailed when it was raining I got wet. Not sure I see anything wrong with this picture.

That’s it for now. I think you can tell we are more than pleased with Dignity. I’m not sure I’ve ever experienced anything where my expectations were exceeded multiple times. We took a big leap of faith when we bought the boat off spec. The first pics in August 2006 were a delight. Seeing a 420 at the boat shows in 2006 and 2007 was again a very pleasant surprise. Spending a week on Dignity upped the experience again.

I have also received a lot of feedback from guests. Apart from the first guest (who has been very vocal on this board) the comments have been very good. I have posted a number of those comments on my website.

[EdKangeter]

Originally Posted by ess105

Yes. She entered the fleet last August and we finally managed to spend a week aboard just a few weeks ago. Here is the critique that I posted on my own blog :

I have also received a lot of feedback from guests. Apart from the first guest (who has been very vocal on this board) the comments have been very good. I have posted a number of those comments on my website.

Thanks for the "blog" it was very informative. I would like to hear more about the electric engines. I wonder how their performance compares with a diesel equipped vessel. I believe Lagoon is putting 40hp Yanmars in the 420s.
I'm sorry to hear the "sugar scoops" are too short for the dinghy to stay on the davits while at the dock. I thought that was a nice feature of the 410s. When I would med moor in Martinique I could drop the dink at the 410's stern which was near the dock and "push" the dink out under the bridge deck. It was a good size rigid hull inflatable. BTW how is the bridge deck clearance?
I assume the electric motors use a solid shaft thru the hull. I think I would like that. I did not like the saildrive concept for a number of reasons.
I wonder if hauling the topping lift in a foot would help the sailcars move better??
I look forward to hearing more about your new boat. Good Luck!
Ed...

[Zigzag]

Hello All My name is Andrew and I hope to be a future owner of a lagoon. I have always sailed monohulls and I am changing to a multihull. I have my thoughts on a lagoon 38. The prices all vary so much so how much should a newish or brand new Lagoon cost. I checked NADA and that wasnt helpful. It seems that boat prices deminish over a short time. Any thoughts would help. Luck with your cats.

[BambooSailor]

Official Lagoon web site published Lagoon 420 photos:
http://www.cata-lagoon.com/420_pres_uk.php

[ess105]

Originally Posted by Zigzag

Hello All My name is Andrew and I hope to be a future owner of a lagoon. I have always sailed monohulls and I am changing to a multihull. I have my thoughts on a lagoon 38. The prices all vary so much so how much should a newish or brand new Lagoon cost. I checked NADA and that wasnt helpful. It seems that boat prices deminish over a short time. Any thoughts would help. Luck with your cats.

If the 380 is like the 420 then the options are no small piece of the equation yet you won't be encouraged to look at the pricing by any broker you talk to. However, no harm in you asking for a price list. I can forward you the 2007 option list for the 420 if you want.

[Zigzag]

Quote: If the 380 is like the 420 then the options are no small piece of the equation yet you won't be encouraged to look at the pricing by any broker you talk to. However, no harm in you asking for a price list. I can forward you the 2007 option list for the 420 if you want.

Than would be excellent

[ess105]

Exciting stuff eh? Now that I've seen the pics and video I need to go and touch. Can't wait to Friday.

I have spoken to my broker today. Seems there's been a bit of a muddle over what they have said to me in the past. My delivery date has been delayed but they had my hull number and delivery date wrong all along. My old hull no was 42 and delivery in April. Now I am being informed I am hull #20 and my delivery date has been delayed from 2/1 to 3/9. Ho hum. Not too many complaints. I'm back in the top 20 which was what I was told when I put my deposit down. I had convinced myself that #42 was probably better but now I'm back to #20 I'm glad. Fickle me.

[stevem4u]

[quote=ess105]Exciting stuff eh? Now that I've seen the pics and video I need to go and touch. Can't wait to Friday.

I have spoken to my broker today. Seems there's been a bit of a muddle over what they have said to me in the past. My delivery date has been delayed but they had my hull number and delivery date wrong all along.

Finally, the following is from my broker. Perhaps it will answer some questions for others as well. Steve M

Hi Steve,

Don Margraf and I are leaving our respective cities (Oakland and Seattle) early tomorrow (Wed.) morning, and flying ot the Annapolis Sailboat show.

We're attending the Lagoon Deaers' meeting Wed. night, where I anticipate getting further news about the production of the Lagoon 420. Then, Wednesday morning we'll have a thorough, hands-on inspection of the first L-420 to reach America. (It just arrived a few days ago.)

Meanwhile, you'll be pleased to know that your timely order of your boat is already showing dividends. The current price for a Lagoon 420 is now approx. $419K....substantially more than you ordered one for. Congrats to you!

The latest news -- straight from Dieder Gust, Chairman of the Board of CNB, the overall "umbrella" company for Lagoon, Jeanneau, Beneteau, etc. (please see attached letter) -- who verifies that projected production numbers for the L-420 have been scaled back. That means that everyone's L-420 is going to be completed about 15% to 20% further down the line (calendar-wise) than initially projected.

Don and I will be able to quantify that as it specifically pertains to your purchase (and our other half-dozen L-420 buyers), and let you know upon our return to the west coast.

As it happens, after Annapolis I must stop off in Canada for several days. So, I won't be back at my desk in Seattle until Friday or Saturday, Oct. 20th or 21st. I look forward to speaking to you then or within the following days.

If something urgent comes up, while we're in Annapolis you can reach Don (510-469-3330) or me (206-491-5384) on our respective cell phones.

Kind Regards,

Rod Gibbons


September 29, 2006

Rod Gibbons
Cruising Cats USA
5905 Seaview Avenue, NW
Seattle, WA 98107

Dear Rod,

I am writing to you with regard to the planning of the new Lagoon 420 boats that you have on order for your clients.

Since the start of the development of this project, we have wanted to take a careful approach. Our original plans assumed the construction of approximately 10 to 15 hulls before the annual factory shut-down in August 2006, but as the development of the boat continued we soon realized that it would be safer to concentrate on the successful and thorough completion of the first 3 boats that we needed in order to launch the product to the public during the fall boat shows.

A revised schedule was then set up based on a full production year and we announced ex-factory dates based on this planning.

Following a review of the systems and the development progress of the boat, as Chairman of the Board of the Company I decided to reduce the production capacity for the first year in order to focus on maintaining quality control rather than achieving pure volume production. The impact of this reduction in production was a further delay in the ex-factory dates for the Lagoon 420.

We understand how eager your clients are to receive their boats, so I wanted to contact you directly to apologize for these consecutive delays. Please be assured that the sole reason for these delays is to ensure the quality of our product: the Lagoon 420 is a new and innovative catamaran that requires all our attention to make sure that we deliver the boats in perfect condition to customers who will be fully satisfied with their new boat.

I trust that you will update your clients with this latest information and pass on Lagoon’s apologies to them on our behalf.

Yours faithfully.

DIETER K. GUST
Chairman of the Board
CNB/Lagoon


Steve M.