Lagoon 420 Owners & Fans

[ess105]

This is the Horizon boat. No contact with owner - if their is one. The boat doesn't even have a name. My guess is that Horizon bought the boat themselves without an owner and has since found one. Other dealers have bought some of the other hulls - I understand this is common.

Horizon will have made a pretty good turn on the deal as the (pending) sale price of $520k is significantly above the amount that owners of similar hull numbers paid for theirs. The new owner is probably a happy camper as they're getting a terrific boat at a good price. Could be that they have to commit to a year or two in charter though.

[Frank Artville]

Maybe the owner / seller was disappointed with certain aspects of the vessel and never got to put 'his' name on it. Maybe he had a personal situation? Only he can tell.

The asking price is $520k, who knows what the price on the contract is 'for a quick sale'.

If the seller then has to pay 10% commission to the broker, I wonder if he really made money on it.

At the end of the day, only the seller can enlighten the forum. If Horizon owned the yacht, wouldn't they have tried to sell it sooner when the market was hotter and made more money?

[ess105]

Originally Posted by Frank Artville

If Horizon owned the yacht, wouldn't they have tried to sell it sooner when the market was hotter and made more money?

If Horizon owned the yacht then they probably have been trying to sell for a while. It's a business gamble at the end of the day. The downside for the dealer is that it's harder to sell a prespecced boat as the buyer doesn't get to choose the options. This translates into having to carry the boat for a while. The upside for Horizon is they are making $80k-$100k on a deal like this - gross. Even considering the cost of carrying the asset for a while, this is more than they'd earn on selling a factory boat.

But here we are again looking for faces in the clouds. Given the information we have you can paste any number of interpretations.

Another way to look at this would be to compare this to other models. Does anyone remember how the early days of the Lagoon 440 played out? Did the dealers sell off boats after launch in a similar manner?

[sailvi767]

Horizon did not own the yacht. Not sure why the owner is selling. There could be many reasons.

George

[Badgerman]

Hi all,
Currently on a Lagoon 42 after a week on a 44. This 42 is a dog of a cat. 5 minutes of running on electric and the generator runs for an hour.
The internal power and the motors will not run at the same time.
The generator is noisy and sits right next to the owner suite.
The helm is a mess with sheets everywhere. The boat is way underpowered sail wise as we get about 7 knots max with the wind howling (25 knots at 120 degrees). Nice boat to tie to the dock with shore power.
Sorry.
44 felt like a race boat compared to this tub.

[ess105]

A few things to note.

1) The generator always runs for an hour each time it starts automatically - regardless of how much juice is really needed. Not sure I like this but if you know you don't need the power, the generator can be switched off.
2) The 420 will run on batteries up to a point. If you push the throttle further forward and demand more power then she'll respond by turning on the genset. If you want the extra power - take it - but see point 1) you don't need to run the genset for an hour if you don't want to.
3) Lagoon seem to be shipping the 420s with the sheets too long. Coupled with the fact the boat is designed to bring everything back to the helm I can see why it can be a mess. I will be getting my boats lines shortened to reduce this problem. It won't go away as this is a penalty for bringing it all to a single spot.
4) The sails coming out of the factory are smaller than one would like. I'm aiming to put larger sails on mine soon. It won't enable her to win any races but it should make a reasonable difference. Won't satisfy someone who wants a race boat (and the lack of luxury that comes with that) but then they're on the wrong boat. Can't help that.

I can't comment on the internal power versus motors issue. I've not heard this before. Perhaps someone else can comment.

Finally - no need to appologise. Everyone knows these are very new boats and some tuning is going to occur as they settle into their respective fleets.

Steve

[sail2wind]

Badgerman, I could not agree more about everything you said about the 420. Oddly enough 4/20 is a day people celebrate marijuana, maybe the staff at Lagoon were smoking when they designed the helm. I also love the port winch, which does nothing. The electronics board is located so you need to sit on the steps with a flash light to read it. The freezer is next to the nav station, duh!!!! The 420 I was on only had one electric winch for the starboard sheets, pain in the ass. You had to keep switching winches from main to jib and back. Steve, no doubt as to comfort. I did use 60 gallons of fuel in 5 days without air conditioning. Yes, we specifically chartered a boat with A/C which was not installed yet. Last year we had twin deisels for 12 days and used 15 gallons total. With all the problems we had with the 420, the only concession the owner made was offering me a free sleep aboard the next time I charter, fat chance. I will stick with the twin deisels.

[Octopus]

Sail2wind

What's wrong with having the freezer next to the nav station?

Chris

[ess105]

Originally Posted by sail2wind

I also love the port winch, which does nothing.

s2w - you sound like an experienced charterer. Have you never come accross a boat which has fittings for spinakers / genakas but not had the sail on the boat. It is fairly common.

Originally Posted by sail2wind

The 420 I was on only had one electric winch for the starboard sheets, pain in the ass. You had to keep switching winches from main to jib and back.

No you don't. You had the choice to use the manual winches, two of which were right there. Sounds like you preferred to use eletric winches - your choice - not a problem with the boat.

s2w. You are clearly jaded by your experience. If I recall, you were on the boat within a very short time after her arrival in the islands and were on the boat before she was fully ready. Were you give the option of an alternate?

[Badgerman]

Originally Posted by sail2wind

Badgerman, I could not agree more about everything you said about the 420. Oddly enough 4/20 is a day people celebrate marijuana, maybe the staff at Lagoon were smoking when they designed the helm. I also love the port winch, which does nothing. The electronics board is located so you need to sit on the steps with a flash light to read it. The freezer is next to the nav station, duh!!!! The 420 I was on only had one electric winch for the starboard sheets, pain in the ass. You had to keep switching winches from main to jib and back. Steve, no doubt as to comfort. I did use 60 gallons of fuel in 5 days without air conditioning. Yes, we specifically chartered a boat with A/C which was not installed yet. Last year we had twin deisels for 12 days and used 15 gallons total. With all the problems we had with the 420, the only concession the owner made was offering me a free sleep aboard the next time I charter, fat chance. I will stick with the twin deisels.

Today we got the rocking horse therapy. The bow is overbouyant, and the
stern is dragging with batteries, generator, and who knows what all. Heading upwind on electrics is virtually impossible........ a ripping 3 knots dropping to 2 as the bow arced up and down what felt like 10 feet on 2-3 foot swells.

I would keep the big generator to run all the goodies and throw away the electric motors with associated batteries. Amen to the twin diesels.

Why make an engine which is running at a steady efficient rpm which is what happens when motoring in a standard twin diesel setup.......and screw it up by adding energy sapping generators, cabling, and motors?
Another aspect is the generator cycling on and off constantly.
I see lots of starters dying early.

As far as other design aspects.......rain is a killer.......runs off everything into the helm area. Just a few ridges and channels to route the wet away would be a welcome addition.

The winch aspect is just plain inconvenient and borders on dangerous........and I also admired the decorative port winch........surprised it wasn't electric just to further mystify.

This boat has a three reef setup in the mainsail.......must be expecting 100knot gales........the boat barely moves with everything full bore.

We had a great time on the 44.......this boat is nothing but hard frustrating work.

Tonight we docked and had a nice dinner.......plugged in and gave the generator and our ears a break. Came back and all the A/C is working
but in the owners suite.......

Will give further reports.......hopefully we can swap this tank out for something else

[RussR]

According to my Lagoon dealer, beginning in '08, the 420 will be available with twin diesels (saildrives). That should be good news for those leary of the hybrid design. My dealer said this was a planned development, but I wonder? Don't get me wrong ... In theory, the hybrid design is pretty exciting, but I'm leary of spending 1/2 million dollars on a pretty experimental design that may not have much advantage even when working well.

In other electric/hybrid news ... Maine Cat has spent 2 years designing & building a 38' power cat specifically for electric drives. During prototype testing this spring, the results were quite disappointing & they're now pulling them out to try conventional diesels instead.

Now with the option of hybrid or conventional diesel engines, the 420 could be a best selling catamaran. Keep all the comments coming, both good & bad! Comparisions to other 40' - 44' cats (Leopard, PDQ, Maine Cat, etc.) appreciated!

Russ

[sail2wind]

Steve, yes some owners own and store their spinakers at their charter company. The boat I was on did not have a spinaker. You still have port and starboard winches at the helm. The stand alone winch on the port side (away from the helm) could be rigged where your guest could help pulling sheets. As set up it was useless. Of course electric winches are easier to use, this boat only had one electric winch for the starboard sheets, non for port. I would say that was foolish or just plain cheap. There were no other boats available at TMM. Since this was an owners charter, not booked through TMM, they were not as helpful as they could have been. I don't think the owners were willing to give back the $$$ a few days before the planned charter. The boat admitedly (by the owners)was not ready for charter.
Chris, common sense of design and layout. The electrical panel is in a ridiculous place.

[LtBrett]

Originally Posted by sail2wind

Of course electric winches are easier to use, this boat only had one electric winch for the starboard sheets, non for port. I would say that was foolish or just plain cheap.

Um, the boat is designed for single-handed operation. You'd only need an electric winch on the port side if you can't cross a sheet from port to starboard. Are you sure you rigged her properly?

The generator next to the owner's stateroom sounds like a real issue for those of us who live with air conditioning on at night. Might be a deal-breaker for me, but I'd like to hear some more feedback first.

Brett

[Octopus]

Originally Posted by sail2wind

The electronics board is located so you need to sit on the steps with a flash light to read it. The freezer is next to the nav station, duh!!!!

Originally Posted by 420Hull58

Sail2wind
What's wrong with having the freezer next to the nav station?
Chris

Originally Posted by sail2wind

Chris, common sense of design and layout. The electrical panel is in a ridiculous place.

Sail2wind

Now I get you. You're not saying there's anything wrong with the freezer being next to the nav station per se, but that the the electronics board should be next to the nav station where it's, presumably, easier to access.

I think you are not making allowances for design constraints such as length of cable runs, voltage loss and suchlike. Designing a boat is a mass of constraint, many of which aren't immediately apparent. Think of your average car and where the electronics boards are sited - usually under the hood (or bonnet in Brit-speak). Hardly convenient, is it? On some cars the designer ends up having to site them in some very obscure places. Sometimes common sense just doesn't work.

Don't get me wrong, there are several design choices on the 420 that I wouldn't have made, but then I don't have the full picture. It's all to easy to criticise, but we haven't been in the designer's shoes. Designing a cruising catamaran must be a great job, but far from easy.

Chris
L420 Hull 52, Octopus (only three weeks to go!)

[sail2wind]

positive, I don't think you understand the layout. There are port and starboard winches at the helm. Would you put your sheets on a starboard winch for a port tack? Have you seen or sailed a 420? Of course even with deisels, you need to run gen sets for A/C. Summer nights in the Caribbean can be oppressive without trade winds, even worse when it rains, which is often.