Lagoon 400 Bulkhead an issue?

[Kinta Ray]

Personally I wouldn't buy a boat with a problem like this, however if you plan on going ahead I would definitely get the surveyor to do a very good check of the complete hull/deck join as this is another problem with Lagoons, most probably caused by movement from failed bulkheads. Remember that you are going to sea in this vessel you are not driving to your local shop. Good luck with whatever you decide but there are other production catamarans with the same type of fitout as the Lagoon that are much better built a little more expensive maybe but there is a good reason for that.

[sailnow2011]

Issues with lagoons are, saildrives, bulkheads not being attached, too few bilge pumps, and extreme gelcoat cracking.

[peterp]

Originally Posted by sailnow2011

Issues with lagoons are, saildrives, bulkheads not being attached, too few bilge pumps, and extreme gelcoat cracking.

Well, with all the above issues it's a miracle all the Lagoons haven't sunk and aren't on the bottom of the worlds oceans.

[sailnow2011]

Originally Posted by peterp

Well, with all the above issues it's a miracle all the Lagoons haven't sunk and aren't on the bottom of the worlds oceans.

Most owners just pay the repair bill of about $7000 and keep sailing. Some do sink. Including the famous lagoon 500 that was brand new.

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by sailnow2011

Most owners just pay the repair bill of about $7000 and keep sailing. Some do sink. Including the famous lagoon 500 that was brand new.

You have some knowledge or data to support that "most owners just pay the repair bill...."?

The "famous Lagoon 500" sank, if that is the correct term, due to gross operator error. Or more correctly, a series of gross errors. No manufacturer is able to make a boat idiot proof. Give me some strong spectra rope and I'll wrap it around your drive shafts or do some other act to cause a leak, then I'll abandon the vessel without doing anything to mitigate the leak. Next, I'll say it sank and then bag the manufacturer.

You are purposefully confusing these issues. No Lagoon 400s have suffered any structural failures. Full stop. Period. To suggest anything else is mischievous misinformation.

[peterp]

Well said Tuskie.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Windhook, & ckathke.

See: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-164462-2.html

[sailnow2011]

Originally Posted by tuskie

You have some knowledge or data to support that "most owners just pay the repair bill...."?

The "famous Lagoon 500" sank, if that is the correct term, due to gross operator error. Or more correctly, a series of gross errors. No manufacturer is able to make a boat idiot proof. Give me some strong spectra rope and I'll wrap it around your drive shafts or do some other act to cause a leak, then I'll abandon the vessel without doing anything to mitigate the leak. Next, I'll say it sank and then bag the manufacturer.

You are purposefully confusing these issues. No Lagoon 400s have suffered any structural failures. Full stop. Period. To suggest anything else is mischievous misinformation.

The issue with the 500 was that the engine room was not watertight. If you rip out my driveshaft, you will find about 45 gallons of water in my bilge, if my 4000GPH pump stops working, and if my 12GPM Pump stops working. That was the flaw. Its not hard to make a small room in a cat watertight, you just have to bother.

As for the bulkheads, even it you took them out the boat would be ok. However a lot of times they don't bother to attach them with any more then foam spray. A proper bulkhead is glassed in.
Lagoon 400 Bulkhead issues/questions
That is the bulkhead issue in question today.

sail drives.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ve-102254.html
You will find a good number of V drive conversions in the lagoon marketplace.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by sailnow2011

The issue with the 500 was that the engine room was not watertight. If you rip out my driveshaft, you will find about 45 gallons of water in my bilge, if my 4000GPH pump stops working, and if my 12GPM Pump stops working. That was the flaw. Its not hard to make a small room in a cat watertight, you just have to bother.

As for the bulkheads, even it you took them out the boat would be ok. However a lot of times they don't bother to attach them with any more then foam spray. A proper bulkhead is glassed in.
Lagoon 400 Bulkhead issues/questions
That is the bulkhead issue in question today.

sail drives.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ve-102254.html
You will find a good number of V drive conversions in the lagoon marketplace.

first link is a BS. there is no crack.

Second one is not only Lagoon issue.

you are not one of these lagoon haters by any chance ?

[sailnow2011]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

first link is a BS. there is no crack.

Second one is not only Lagoon issue.

you are not one of these lagoon haters by any chance ?

The new ones are pretty well junk, until you fix them. I like the TPI lagoons, I may buy one someday if I decide I am tired of my mono cave. I have surveyed a lot of boats, I find the Juneau and lagoon brands some of the worst accidents waiting to happen I have seen. Maybe if the lagoons were not such dock queens we would see more major failures, but if your going to make a circ, Its the wrong boat.

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by sailnow2011

The issue with the 500 was that the engine room was not watertight. If you rip out my driveshaft, you will find about 45 gallons of water in my bilge, if my 4000GPH pump stops working, and if my 12GPM Pump stops working. That was the flaw. Its not hard to make a small room in a cat watertight, you just have to bother.

As for the bulkheads, even it you took them out the boat would be ok. However a lot of times they don't bother to attach them with any more then foam spray. A proper bulkhead is glassed in.
Lagoon 400 Bulkhead issues/questions
That is the bulkhead issue in question today.

sail drives.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ve-102254.html
You will find a good number of V drive conversions in the lagoon marketplace.

It gets worse! If you are going to provide links to other forums, please read them first. As Arsenelupiga said, the "crack" in the bulkhead did not exist. The original poster could not tell the difference between a crack and a glassed over join.

Lagoon bulkheads are not attached with foam spray. More of your disinformation. At least on L400s (I haven't inspected every model, so unlike you I won't make statements that i can't substantiate ), structural bulkheads are glassed in. Foam spray is used to reduce water ingress around pipes and cables passing through bulkheads. This is designed to make sure that the bilge pump on the other side of the bulkhead is not over whelmed with water flow. It makes sense if you understand.
Some Lagoon partitions walls are recessed into moldings and sikaflexed in positions. These "bulkheads" are not structural and are optional according to desired internal layout.

As far as circumnavigation is concerned, I would guess that more Lagoons cross oceans than any other brand. A high proportion of Australian examples have crossed two oceans to get here. Its not that Lagoons are superior to other brands, just more numerous. The point is, in competent hands they can safely cross oceans. If they were constructed as badly as you state, they woud all be sunk within sight of Bordeaux.

[peterp]

Once again well said Tuskie and Arsenelupigo. And your responses are articulate, factual, and very helpful to the community, and in the wonderful spirit of the CF, of a helpful unbiased truthful information base. Keep up the good work.
Regards Peter

[BigBeakie]

Do these photos of a Lagoon 420 that suffered structural damage after moderately rough weather off the Aussie coast count?

Note: Owner was not aware of this damage until survey was undertaken to determine why shrouds were so loose and cause of failure of deck-hull join which caused partial flooding.

First is one photo of main bulkhead split bottom to top.
Second is Plexus used to attach main bulkhead. Not glassed in that I can see.
Not to mention that Plexus should NEVER be used to bond wood in the first place. This is clearly negligent.

No wonder there are "bulkhead problems".

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by BigBeakie

Do these photos of a Lagoon 420 that suffered structural damage after moderately rough weather off the Aussie coast count?

Note: Owner was not aware of this damage until survey was undertaken to determine why shrouds were so loose and cause of failure of deck-hull join which caused partial flooding.

First is one photo of main bulkhead split bottom to top.
Second is Plexus used to attach main bulkhead. Not glassed in that I can see.
Not to mention that Plexus should NEVER be used to bond wood in the first place. This is clearly negligent.

No wonder there are "bulkhead problems".

this is L42. I thought we concentrate on L400. So, you say all lagoons are crap. I follow lagoon owner group for long time and aware of most structural issues, as nearly everyone with issue gets there as Lagoon is on the forum too.

Number of structural failures is small. They have over 2000 boats sailing, and probably know best how to build cats from the user feedback. Worst I know is hull crack, probably due to lifting procedure and on another cat structural cracks on bridgedeck.

Both were fixed by owners. Also 1 x fallen rig.

Bulkhead issues come up relatively often, they are not critical.

You claim to be better expert than lagoon. Fair enough, it is internet, but I trust Lagoon expertise due to largest pool of boats out there.

You have not convinced me not to buy lagoon as my next boat.

[rabbi]

Bulkhead issues are somewhat scary to me. Our old Lagoon 410 had all bulkheads completely glassed over, and newer like the 400 just have untreated plywood glassed in place.

Originally Posted by BigBeakie

First is one photo of main bulkhead split bottom to top.

Can you show some more photos of the bulkhead?

Because it doesn't show a crack. Its a jigsaw cut as you can see in the marked section . The two pieces of the bulkhead just don't match and the glass in the left top corner has clearly been cut, too.

Maybe this just shows some stage of the repair, but the photo is no evidence of a crack. Its just evidence that someone used a jigsaw.