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Old 02-05-2011, 09:04   #46
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Re: Jumping Ship: From a Mono to a Cat

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The Catana is much more performance oriented than the Lagoon, but the Lagoon will give you an idea of what a cat sails like. I really like the idea of buying a shell and putting in your own interior. Most (all) production boats of necesity skimp on the quality of their joinery a bit to keep things profitable. As you know, you will be able to put an interior in that will be the envy of all Catana owners.

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To do an interior "right" on a multihull involves sizing and selecting materials of low weight. Wherever possible you should use foam or honeycomb-cored panels with veneer or fiberglass/plastic sandwich; avoid solid wood or FRP unless there's no way to do it lighter. Keep it minimal and light if you want to end up with a boat that sails well. If you overdo the mass or complexity of the interior build-out you will devalue the boat.

As for building to a price point, isn't that what everyone does (factory or not)? I think the factory can generally do a better quality job per dollar/hour spent, as they have all the templates and jigs made up and the tools and methods to make them more efficient about fit and finish.
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Old 02-05-2011, 09:18   #47
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Re: Jumping Ship: From a Mono to a Cat

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Seems a bit daft getting a bigger boat, just to have to keep it light, though... What else would you do with all that extra space.
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HWMO wants it cos it'll be big enough to keep his Hobie 16 on the deck. I said "No way, if we're taking a beach cat it's gonna be a Dart 18."

But seriously, the whole point would be so we could have enough space to take a RIB as well as the opti with oars as a tender... and with more space we'd be able to carry bigger oxygen cylinders so we could mix better Nitrox for the Rebreathers etc... Perhaps pick up paying passengers / students and earn a bit as we go.
It's the nature of the beast. If you are just buying to enlarge your space, and not worried about slowing down the boat. Then that is another matter. We have empty storage lockers, and cabinetry all over the boat. Well until guest come along, and then they have a pplace to put their stuff too.

As far as it being cold down in the Southern Ocean. I was using that as an example. I gave that idea up along time ago of going into the Southern Ocean. I too prefer the warmth........i2f
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Old 02-05-2011, 09:48   #48
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Re: Jumping Ship: From a Mono to a Cat

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As far as it being cold down in the Southern Ocean. I was using that as an example. I gave that idea up along time ago of going into the Southern Ocean.
FYI, several Catanas have gone around Cape Horn. If I had a chance to get one I'd do it in a heartbeat...
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Old 02-05-2011, 13:20   #49
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Re: Jumping Ship: From a Mono to a Cat

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FYI, several Catanas have gone around Cape Horn. If I had a chance to get one I'd do it in a heartbeat...
I do believe they took the inside passage, and that is a lot of difference. I do not know where Henk de Velde passed. I used to think the same way, but age, and health has gotten in the way of entering the Southern Ocean.......i2f
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Old 02-05-2011, 14:25   #50
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Re: Jumping Ship: From a Mono to a Cat

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I do believe they took the inside passage, and that is a lot of difference. I do not know where Henk de Velde passed. I used to think the same way, but age, and health has gotten in the way of entering the Southern Ocean.......i2f
I'm not sure but I think Bruno Nicoletti went around the outside when he took his Catana 44 non-stop single-handed around the world via the 3 capes. I don't read French so there are not many details that I can read. Here is Catana's marketing description of his exploits:

Brumas Patagonia

To be clear, that is not something we're contemplating with our Catana. Just nice to know that it has been done.

Mark.
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Old 02-05-2011, 15:51   #51
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Re: Jumping Ship: From a Mono to a Cat

The opportunity to end up with a 47ft Catana if the price is right and the work required not too onerous is one not to be passed up. read envy.

A 47 ft cat gives the opportunity for divers as you are with room and load carrying to set up properly for diving (compressors, O2 etc) without overloading done properly. As you run a diving operation all the space/access/dingy advantages are immediately apparent v mono making it a no brainer.

Hope it works out for you.
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Old 02-05-2011, 16:27   #52
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Re: Jumping Ship: From a Mono to a Cat

Welcome to the fold! We find the admittedly "more bouncy" motion when going to windward, more likely to cause bruises, but less likely to make one seasick. We can cook our "storm meals" of cup O soup or the like, using a tea kettle on the fixed, non gimbaled stove, (even hard to windward in 35+ knots and 15' seas). No, we would not sit a glass of water down in the same conditions!

Safety is a complex subject, as it depends on weather one is in a temperate climate or not. Since this is our preference, we feel that a good multi is indeed safer from the LIKELY disasters...

(Hitting "something" or the bottom, due to draft, poor visibility, or disorientation, SINKING, or the big one... falling off of the boat!)

One also has a better, more LEVEL platform to effect repairs from, and do all the other shipboard chores... from medical recuperation, engine repair, to God forbid... fighting fire!

Smart move!

M.

BTW... A same sized sistership to our Searunner 34, went around the world by way of Cape Horn. Multis can be harder to heat due to more spread out, and an ample amount, of cubic air space... Otherwise...
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Old 02-05-2011, 17:05   #53
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Re: Jumping Ship: From a Mono to a Cat

This is just all so cool. We took a walk on the beach, had the mandatory photos with the dog (it's a strange culture), and pretty much decided to go for it... we're booking flights to visit it this weekend. Thinking if we like it and can find a deal, we'll get engines fitted in Dubai and order sails, so we can then sail her up. Then we'll lift her, take her to HWMO's factory and then we have another new project (so it's time to get on with that last bloody 18% of the current project, methinks...)
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Old 02-05-2011, 17:54   #54
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Re: Jumping Ship: From a Mono to a Cat

If you're getting sails made for a cat of this size, make sure you go with a sail maker who knows multihulls. Ask for their multihull experience.

I assume the shipping would make the cost prohibitive, but if not I'd highly recommend talking to Dave Calvert from Calvert Sails in FL, USA. He is a catamaran sailor himself, and has built some great sails for us.

Mark.
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Old 02-05-2011, 23:14   #55
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Re: Jumping Ship: From a Mono to a Cat

I think you'll find most of the bigger sail makers have factories in Asia so shipping should not be a problem, whoever you chose.
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Old 03-05-2011, 02:09   #56
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Re: Jumping Ship: From a Mono to a Cat

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Originally Posted by mark_morwood View Post
If you're getting sails made for a cat of this size, make sure you go with a sail maker who knows multihulls. Ask for their multihull experience.

I assume the shipping would make the cost prohibitive, but if not I'd highly recommend talking to Dave Calvert from Calvert Sails in FL, USA. He is a catamaran sailor himself, and has built some great sails for us.

Mark.
Yup!! We have had suits of sails made and sent from both South Africa and Thailand. We were happy with the cut and quality of both suits, but I have to say the Thailand guys lacked a little in the brains department.

For example, we asked for navy blue sunstrip on the furling genoa, and they gave us royal blue. Sounds like a little thing, but it's a big genoa, and it looks awful with the navy blue hull, sail cover and sun canopies.... It really pissed me off. Also, the foot was cut much higher than we gave measurements for, so we had to move the genoa track forward just to be able to set it at all. I'm sure they must have saved yards of fabric shorting us on that one!!

The other little thing was the spinnaker. For some reason the Thais put red tape on one leech, and blue on the other. All our other spinnakers have red and green tapes, and we assumed this was how they came...

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Have you ever sat in the cockpit on one of those things? The only way to see anything ahead is to use one of the helm seats perched way out to the side, where there is very little shelter from the wind, etc. I bet it isn't very comfortable doing that for long on a night watch. From people I talk to, this seems to be standard operating procedure on a lot of the big cats: autopilot, chartplotter, and radar on and everyone else either asleep or doing something else.
This is from another thread (the crashed catana), but it highlights exactly what I mean about the view not being so great from the helm. Do other cat owners feel this about their helms?
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Old 03-05-2011, 03:10   #57
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Re: Jumping Ship: From a Mono to a Cat

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This is from another thread (the crashed catana), but it highlights exactly what I mean about the view not being so great from the helm. Do other cat owners feel this about their helms?
Nope - great vision from helm and saloon on my boat.
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Old 03-05-2011, 06:37   #58
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Re: Jumping Ship: From a Mono to a Cat

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This is from another thread (the crashed catana), but it highlights exactly what I mean about the view not being so great from the helm. Do other cat owners feel this about their helms?
We looked at Catana before buying a Privilege. The deciding factor was the helm position on the Catana. Just couldn't imagine being happy out in the far corner of the boat when the going got tough. Coming across the Indian Ocean recently reinforced that opinion when we spent days hardly wanting to come out of the saloon never mind venturing to the back of the boat.

On the whole Multi/Monohull thing... We went around the world in company with 20 or so monohulls and 4 cats. We had a number of the mono sailors aboard for a week or more during the event. So far two mono owners have gone home, put their boats on the market and are now looking for a cat. A couple more say their next boat will be a cat. None of the cat owners are rushing out to buy a mono.

p.s. I sailed monos for more than twenty years before converting so I have plenty of experience on both.
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Old 03-05-2011, 08:15   #59
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Mono to a Cat

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On the whole Multi/Monohull thing... We went around the world in company with 20 or so monohulls and 4 cats. We had a number of the mono sailors aboard for a week or more during the event. So far two mono owners have gone home, put their boats on the market and are now looking for a cat. A couple more say their next boat will be a cat. None of the cat owners are rushing out to buy a mono.
Amen, brother. Of all the mono to cat converts I've only heard of one that went back to the dark side and that was because his wife didn't like the motion. We got it right. BOB
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Old 03-05-2011, 08:45   #60
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Re: Jumping Ship: From a Mono to a Cat

We looked at two Catanas when shopping. There is a lot to like about the boats. There were two big things I didn't like.

The aft quarter helms, IMHO, are not the way to go for cruising. With all respect to Dave (and I have a lot of that for him), take a look at this picture on his website: STORM MANAGEMENT FOR CRUISERS
Imagine doing that in horrible conditions for a day, or two, or more. If that seems like fun, or even reasonable, for you, then go for it. Not for me, I'll take bulkhead steering.

The second is Catana's practice of running all halyards and reefing rigging through a conduit under the bridgedeck back to a central winch. Now, I'm sure that is very nice, so long as everything is working. But, I'm also sure that it adds friction and what happens when a line kinks or a sheave breaks? You know it won't happen when conditions are fair, but when you really need #2 or #3 reef and you need it, now. I'll take plain and simple rigging at the mast. It ain't fun going out to the mast when conditions are deteriorating, but I don't worry about something breaking that I can't see and can't get at.

The advantage you have is the ability to make changes to those features with much less expense than you would have if buying a completed boat. I have seen Catanas with bulkhead steering, so it can surely be done, and if the one you're looking at has the underdeck rigging, I'd seriously consider changing that, too.

Just my thoughts.

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