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Old 06-09-2012, 12:43   #61
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

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I meant the old boat. I don't follow them anymore now that it is a baby blog. Just not that interesting to an old fart.
I know. Just saying.
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:46   #62
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

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I expect there were some issues with the early Wildcats but that thats why a survey is so important.
But how can a boat so shortly after a "good" survey have such extreme delamination? I don't know what really happened with the Bumfuzzle, but I also saw the picture of that part which didn't even have LAmination. Lightning bolt? Very far shot...

Wim
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Old 06-09-2012, 13:10   #63
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

Caveat emptor. When I buy mine I'm tapping on the hull myself whatever make it is.
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Old 06-09-2012, 13:25   #64
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

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About the drawings: are those digital drawings? If so, I would appreciate it very much if you would be so kind to e-mail them to me.

Wim
I sent the files. Good luck.

Bumfuzzle is has been beat to death. Search on it if you really care. I won't go there anymore.

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Old 06-09-2012, 13:33   #65
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

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I sent the files. Good luck.

Bumfuzzle is has been beat to death. Search on it if you really care. I won't go there anymore.

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Thanx, Mike! Yeah, I've read everything about the Bumfuzzle. One thing's for sure, you better take a Jaguar owner and a lot of knowledge with you when you go look at such a boat, than relying on a surveyor, even a "famous" one...

Wim

P.S.: I don't see your e-mail yet, but I guess it will arive soon.
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Old 07-09-2012, 09:36   #66
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

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Hi,
I agree with belizesailor however you can get pounding on reach to close hauled with breaking waves hitting bottom and leeward hull. Most people (if you can believe it) don’t sail in 20+knots of wind. We have left many behind at port during a brisk northerly. They say cats don't conform to the traditional hull speed formula, I’m told because of the narrow beam of the hulls, but we are moving between 9-12 knots in this video...
Yes, but sailing to windward you can get wave slap against the inner leeward hull even aboard larger cats with more bridge deck clearance. Not something unique to Charter Cats boats.

I put "hull speed" in quotes in my original post because of some of the additional complexities of applying that concept to cats. As you mention, other factors come into play on a cat in determining maximum theoretical speed. But, you still get a similar bow wave effect. The bow waves are just flowing from two hulls and meet astern -- resulting in sort of a standing wave behind you. I watch for this little wave to build behind us when sailing and then I know that we are rolling along reasonably well for the conditions -- no need to even look at the speed log.
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Old 09-09-2012, 09:02   #67
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

Hello Notyet, I don't visit this forumn often but find it very useful and informative. I Just logged on and saw your blog. I have owned a 2005 jag 36, 3 cabin owners version, for almost two years now and absolutely love it.

I am a professional mariner and experienced sailor and this is my first cat, excepting hobie 16's, having sailed thousands of ocean miles on monohulls. I bought the boat in Annapolis and sailed it to Belize and Guatemala in the winter of 2010/11

Yes my one and only complaint is bridge deck slamming. But don't forget, low bridge deck equals greaster internal accomodation space and headroom, and the layout of the jaguar 36 is fantastic in virtually all respects, the low freeboard with high headroom and volumous (is that a word?) interior, the aft cockpit and great access to the dinghy and water for fishing and diving are unsurpassed. The few short hours I spend slamming on a bad heading is more than compensated for by the time i spend enjoying the interior space, which I haven't found the equivilent of on any other cat under 40'.

I too read the bum story and as a full time engineer and part time surveyor did a thorough survey of the boat myself, equipped with sounding mallet and moisture meter I carefully crawled all over my boat before closing the deal. I have no structural issues at all but did need to replace my salon windows, which cracked in the high heat of the rio dulce while sitting at the dock. The previous owner had spent a fortune and incorrectly in my opiionion, replaced the original windows with plexi instead of lexan. I had a very satisfactory and inexpensive job completed at Ram Marina in Rio dulce. The boat is presently in the rio and we plan a final lap through belize before making for panama this winter.

I hope you enjoy your future cat, whatever it may be, as much as I love my Jaguar 36.

Fair winds, Eric
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Old 09-09-2012, 09:44   #68
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

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I hope you enjoy your future cat, whatever it may be, as much as I love my Jaguar 36.

Fair winds, Eric
Hey, thanx for your reaction! Sounds very good. Man, I can't wait till we can buy one!

By the way, strange that there are so many negative stories on this boat, but the owners are a lot more positive :-)

Wim
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Old 09-09-2012, 10:08   #69
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

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Eric

Eric, a question. Do you have problems with windward sailing?

Wim
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:26   #70
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To the owners of Jaguars; How do you think they sail when compared to other small cats? What kind of tacking angles do typically see when going to windward? What are the minimum windspeeds, with flat seas, that you sail in before motoring?
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:13   #71
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

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To the owners of Jaguars; How do you think they sail when compared to other small cats? What kind of tacking angles do typically see when going to windward? What are the minimum windspeeds, with flat seas, that you sail in before motoring?
The only other small cruising cats I have spent any significant time sailing is an older Gemini and smaller Wharram cats (lots of time on larger cats though). The Gemini sailed surprisingly well. Enjoyed sailing the smaller Wharrams, but their windward and tacking ability was not so good (or maybe I just need more time to learn their characteristics). Lots of other small cat owners here (Seawind, Gemini, etc...) who can answer better about their cats.

A key concepts to be aware of in relation to tacking cats: "Tacking angle" is not the same as "sailing angle". Cats have wider tacking angles than monohulls -- 110 degrees +/- is pretty typical -- and this is typical of the W35/J36s too. Coming into a tack on a cat it is often useful to ease the main a bit as you go head to wind (depends upon the boat and conditions) so that it does not tend to "weathervane" the boat into the wind. Turn the boat through the wind, leave the main eased, build up boat speed (so that keels/dagger boards start to work more effectively) then sheet in the main and bring the boat up onto a closer sailing angle. For single handing, I have my autopilot's "auto tack" feature set to 110d. My W35 tacks easily through about 110 and sails close hauled at about 40/45, she will pinch to 30, but you lose a lot of boat speed. Being able to pinching to 30 is handy for maneuvering or motor sailing -- because when motor sailing at 30 I can start to get some drive from the sails.

Re wind speeds before motoring. Depends of course on the boat speed you want to maintain and point of sail. These are not performance boats so their light air performance is not spectacular (compared to something like my H33 for example), but they will sail comparably to other cruising cats/monos in light air. I used to sail my W35 through a crowded anchorage of charter and cruising boats on a regular basis -- in normal conditions the winds were usually less than 10 knots, and shifty, because the anchorage was in the lee of an island. We were not breaking any performance records, usually ghosting along at less than 5 knots, but she would maneuver just fine. When cruising I usually start thinking about starting an engine when we drop below 5 knots for any extended period of time. In calm sea state, with no adverse current, this is going to happen when wind speeds dip below 10 knots.
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Old 09-09-2012, 13:36   #72
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
A key concepts to be aware of in relation to tacking cats: "Tacking angle" is not the same as "sailing angle". Cats have wider tacking angles than monohulls -- 110 degrees +/- is pretty typical -- and this is typical of the W35/J36s too. Coming into a tack on a cat it is often useful to ease the main a bit as you go head to wind (depends upon the boat and conditions) so that it does not tend to "weathervane" the boat into the wind. Turn the boat through the wind, leave the main eased, build up boat speed (so that keels/dagger boards start to work more effectively) then sheet in the main and bring the boat up onto a closer sailing angle. For single handing, I have my autopilot's "auto tack" feature set to 110d. My W35 tacks easily through about 110 and sails close hauled at about 40/45, she will pinch to 30, but you lose a lot of boat speed. Being able to pinching to 30 is handy for maneuvering or motor sailing -- because when motor sailing at 30 I can start to get some drive from the sails.
So, Belizesailor, you are saying that you actually do most of the tacking with your genoa? (I'm not a native English speaking dude, so not all the details of what you guys are saying are always clear to me )
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Old 09-09-2012, 13:39   #73
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

NotYet, I don't have a lot to compare my boats sailing performance to so I'm not much help with your question. From my observations when sailing to windward around other cats and my friends monohulls I can point reasonably well, as well as other cats from my observed but not quite as high as the monohulls. I notice I keep a lot of sail up when others reef and perhaps that makes some difference.

To be perfectly honest, I've never raced sailboats and as a cruiser I don't measure sailing performance that carefully. When reaching the cat is fast and responsive. When pointing if I don't get the speed I want I fire up the leeward engine and make my desired course and speed while charging my house batteries and running the watermaker. FYI when motor-sailing I find running one engine achieves almost the same speed as running two, and saves fuel and wear and tear. My boat has the twin yanmar 30 hp diesels, which I'm very happy with.

Which reminds me, the yanmar SD 20 sail drives have an unrealistic oil change interval of 200 hrs, which requires hauling the boat to drain the oil through the plug! Some owners of this drive have complained of oil seal problems and subsequent damage from water in the gear oil. Others describe an underwater procedure for changing the oil!

I speculated that the seal problem might be due to thermal expansion and contraction of the oil within the enclosed gear case volume, sucking sea water into the drive through the seal. As a precaution, I installed oil header tanks mounted in the engine compartment above the waterline, which are vented to the atmosphere and maintain positive pressure on the oil side of the seal. I also use the expensive synthetic quicksilver gear oil for longevity. When doing my routine checks of the engine compartment I can glance at the semi-translucent header tank (a Napa car engine coolant tank) and immediately tell if I'm losing oil through the seal. ( I haven't yet). so far so good.

Sorry for all the rambling, I'm doing 5 things at once at the moment.
Eric
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Old 09-09-2012, 13:48   #74
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

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NotYet, I don't have a lot to compare my boats sailing performance to so I'm not much help with your question. From my observations when sailing to windward around other cats and my friends monohulls I can point reasonably well, as well as other cats from my observed but not quite as high as the monohulls. I notice I keep a lot of sail up when others reef and perhaps that makes some difference.

To be perfectly honest, I've never raced sailboats and as a cruiser I don't measure sailing performance that carefully. When reaching the cat is fast and responsive. When pointing if I don't get the speed I want I fire up the leeward engine and make my desired course and speed while charging my house batteries and running the watermaker. FYI when motor-sailing I find running one engine achieves almost the same speed as running two, and saves fuel and wear and tear. My boat has the twin yanmar 30 hp diesels, which I'm very happy with.

Sorry for all the rambling, I'm doing 5 things at once at the moment.
Eric
Haha, just ramble on, Eric. The more information I get, the better. No, I'm not into racing or whatever either (at the moment I'm into nothing), but I was just curious about other owners. Belizesailer said he has a quite good windward performance, while a renter said it was a disaster. So it's good to hear from another owner. Thanx for the info.
About the engines: the J36 I'm looking at and dreaming about, has two Volvo 30's.

Wim
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Old 09-09-2012, 19:34   #75
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

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...I have owned a 2005 jag 36, 3 cabin owners version, for almost two years now and absolutely love it. ......
Yes, and I just saw her last week docked at RAM Marine -- the stick is still pointing up!
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