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Old 30-08-2012, 16:01   #31
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

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Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
Belizesailor,
It could very well have been sail trim. This was the first cat I had chartered and as you have surely found out, they don't like the boom centered when close reaching. If it was though, the rudders couldn't compensate as the boat would round up and go into irons or stall.

My FP has the same sail angles as you state and it for sure is no performance cruiser.

If I remember right, don't you have to walk through a head in order to access the foreward berths? Odd design. I did really like the stern seats though.
As you say, an over trimmed, or over canvased, main could have contributed to the problem. Or, maybe an issue with that particular boat and/or the steering. Charter Cats did of course have rather well publicized quality of build issues, so who knows. They used mostly hydraulic steering and if not properly maintained (like in charter) it can get out of whack.

Mine was one of the early ones sold in the USA, well before all the bad press started to fly, but she surveyed quite well and has proven to be a good little boat.

Re heads. Charter Cats built multiple layouts. All that I have seen had heads all the way forward -- as is mine. One in each hull. You do have to pass through a cabin to get to them. The only time it has been an issue for me is running charters with a lot of guests aboard (too many people anyway). For a cruising couple with another couple as guests aboard or a family of 4 (like the OP) its not an issue. The mid-ships, and slightly inboard, head arrangement of many FPs is a better set-up (I've run a lot of FP's as a charter captain) -- particularly if you plan to have a lot of guests on board. The copious number of private in-suite heads on many charter layouts I think is rather silly.

Re sailing performance. In terms of windward ability, boat speed, and behavior under sail, performance is reasonable for a smaller cruising boat. Mine shows no tendency to round up strongly when close hauled and even heaves to quite nicely.

The low bridge deck clearance is not one of their better design points, and of course will result in more bride deck pounding than a relatively higher clearance configuration, but my perspective is that there are plenty of low bridge deck clearance cats out there cruising successfully (just look across the membership here at CF). This is a characteristic of even some much larger South African cats. Higher clearance is certainly better, but lower obviously does not stop people from going cruising.
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Old 30-08-2012, 16:08   #32
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

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Originally Posted by Notyet View Post
Good to hear. But again, why are the masts on some cats (like the J36) leaning backwards?
That is mast rake and the degree of it is a design parameter. Among other things, it sets the center of effort of the sails. US, Australian and British boats seem to have only small amount of rake (if any), French boats more, and SA boats seem to have extreme amounts at times (Dean, for example). Rake is mostly determined by the position of the mast and type of rig in relation to the center of resistance of the underwater profile. The shape of the hulls can also be a determinant.

There is no right or wrong amount of rake, as long as it is the designed amount and the boat sails well (however, I always think the Dean rigs are about to fall over!).

The Jaguar/Wildcat is an Australian design modified and built in SA.

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Old 30-08-2012, 16:35   #33
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
...mast rake......extreme amounts at times (Dean, for example)....
I've puzzled many times over why the Deans have such an extreme amount of mast rake, but have not gotten around to researching that. No other cat I know of that has that degree of rake.
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Old 30-08-2012, 18:47   #34
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
That is mast rake and the degree of it is a design parameter. Among other things, it sets the center of effort of the sails. US, Australian and British boats seem to have only small amount of rake (if any), French boats more, and SA boats seem to have extreme amounts at times (Dean, for example). Rake is mostly determined by the position of the mast and type of rig in relation to the center of resistance of the underwater profile. The shape of the hulls can also be a determinant.

There is no right or wrong amount of rake, as long as it is the designed amount and the boat sails well (however, I always think the Dean rigs are about to fall over!).

The Jaguar/Wildcat is an Australian design modified and built in SA.

Mark
Thanx for the info. And as I think to understand, the rake is a fixed something? You can't change it for example to change the way a cat behaves?
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Old 30-08-2012, 18:50   #35
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
I've puzzled many times over why the Deans have such an extreme amount of mast rake, but have not gotten around to researching that. No other cat I know of that has that degree of rake.
Belizesailor, couldn't it be some kind of design mistake? That they had to have to give the mast a certain amount of rake to prevent the cat from rounding up, for example? Just a thought...
Maybe because they lengthened the hulls at the back, in comparison with the new design? I read that the J36 has been made longer than the original Schionning design...
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Old 30-08-2012, 18:57   #36
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

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Originally Posted by Notyet View Post
Thanx for the info. And as I think to understand, the rake is a fixed something? You can't change it for example to change the way a cat behaves?
You can absolutely change rake - it is controlled by the length of forestay and shrouds. And changing it does change the way the boat behaves under sail.

I only meant to say that the degree of rake is a design parameter. It can be changed to suit the individual boat characteristics and the sails it carries. In fact, it is one of the optimization parameters in setting up the rig.

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Old 30-08-2012, 19:02   #37
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
You can absolutely change rake - it is controlled by the length of forestay and shrouds. And changing it does change the way the boat behaves under sail.
Mark
That's what I was thinking, yes. In the past I did some windsurfing and steering with a surfboard actually mostly was done by changing the "rake". So your rental J36 could maybe have had a wrong rake or a wrong main sail?
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Old 30-08-2012, 19:43   #38
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

I have never rented or sailed a Jaguar or Wildcat. I was only answering the question about rake.

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Old 30-08-2012, 20:01   #39
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

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Originally Posted by Notyet View Post
Belizesailor, couldn't it be some kind of design mistake? That they had to have to give the mast a certain amount of rake to prevent the cat from rounding up, for example? Just a thought...
Maybe because they lengthened the hulls at the back, in comparison with the new design? I read that the J36 has been made longer than the original Schionning design...
Deans have been around for a while, if they screwed up the design and had to a make a crazy rake to make it sail right I expect they would have had the time to change the design.

How or if the J36 was changed from the original Schioninng design I don't know.

Also, in general re rake and cruising boats, its not something you muck with much on a cruising boat. Typically most cruising boats, cats or mono, are rigged as designed and left that way. Smaller and high-performance boats you would be more likely to change the mast rake, and other tuning, to suit current or anticipated conditions.
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Old 30-08-2012, 20:39   #40
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
The Jaguar/Wildcat is an Australian design modified and built in SA.

Mark
Really minor point - the designer of the wildcat/jaguar is Jeff Schionning, he is Australian now but was originally South African, moved here when he was about 20 - early twenties?
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Old 30-08-2012, 22:07   #41
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

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I have never rented or sailed a Jaguar or Wildcat. I was only answering the question about rake.

Mark
Sorry, Mark. That was Palarran :-)
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Old 01-09-2012, 14:52   #42
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

Hi,
I have owned Charter Cats Jaguar 36 hull #7 for 7 years. We have put 10000+ miles under her keels from from Florida to the eastern and western Caribbean and back and yet to have any issues with the boat. Everything is still original from the sails to the canvas and cushions. We added a little wonder 200 and nextgen 3.5kw, two 230w solar panels, and a Splendide washer/dryer. She has served us well and we have put her to the test several times. I almost always single hand her and the electric winch helps hoist the large main. The screecher will move the boat in light air at surprising speed and with 20 knots on the stern you are looking at a thrilling 10-12 knots. I posted a couple of videos on you tube a couple years ago. The bridge deck design is not as good as some and better that others. It has never been an issue for me. The faster you can go the less chance of pounding. If you motor into 20 knots its quite annoying but I expect most any cat is the same. We have not had an issue with the build quality. Yes there are unfinished edges in or underneath things. She is built with quality materials and fittings and shows much like new today. The Volvo Penta MD2020s will cruise at 5.5knots at about .66 gal/hr and 2750rpm will get you over 7+ knots. We love the unique and wonderful rear deck that puts us right where you want to be for fishing, diving and swimming. So much more convenient than just the two hull ends. The accommodations are very nice with high quality cherry wood through out.
We have met other Jaguar 36 owners from around the world and the story is always the same, we love our boat. I have some engineering drawings if someone would like to see them. No boat is perfect, everyone has opinions but look for other owners. Most of all buy a boat you can afford and get out there.

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Old 01-09-2012, 17:40   #43
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Lightbulb Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

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Hi,
I have owned Charter Cats Jaguar 36 hull #7 for 7 years. We have put 10000+ miles under her keels from from Florida to the eastern and western Caribbean and back and yet to have any issues with the boat....
I'm aghast! This is blasphemous! This video is faked! Because the "experts" here have clearly stated that it is not possible to cruise comfortably, safely, and quickly on a J36. Some of them even have super secret numbers and criteria to back this up! Which they will share with you, for a fee of course, just to confirm that you really are delusional.



Nice video. Enjoy!

A few pics of my W35 underway, I've been doing the "impossible" in her since 2001!
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:17   #44
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

Akmike, you have one of the most securely attached outboards I have ever seen ! :-)
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:54   #45
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Re: Jaguar 36 Stories ?

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[U][/URL]
Hey, thanx for your enthousiastic story! Haha, I think that I have watched this video of yours for at least 5 times already. Especially the parts where you don't hear the wind in your cam mike, give me that perfect blue cruising feel! By the way, it seems like the little waves that must produce the "slam" meet eachother behind the cat, or am I wrong?
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