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Old 05-11-2013, 09:24   #61
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Re: It's fun to read you guys talking about picking new cats.

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
I'm still looking for others that want to build a catamaran...

To me it makes a lot of sense to spend your time (free) to build a boat,
as the majority of building cost is labor.
Buying an older one to refit just takes perhaps just as much time.

If it takes 3-5 years building, then for me it does take too long,
but 1 year is not much of a burden, and you'll know the boat inside and out.
There are a benefits to building your own sailboat, but I disagree with both your main points:
1) Time is not free. It might be cheap for some people, but it is not cheap for everyone, and it certainly is not free.
2) I thought the record pretty clearly shows that building a boat is not cheaper than buying one - certainly not when one considers finished build quality.

On Point 1, the value of a person's time can be raised, then the output of that time (income) can be turned to purchasing someone else's time - ideally someone whose time is less expensive, and whose skills make him more effective - e.g. get a good paying job, and buy a french-made catamaran

On Point 2, perhaps I am badly mistaken, but my recollection of every boat-building or boat-renovating story I've ever heard is that it was colossally expensive. Many have found it a worthwhile venture for the experience and knowledge gained, but cost savings does not appear to be a benefit of building.
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Old 05-11-2013, 13:23   #62
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Re: It's fun to read you guys talking about picking new cats.

The quality of finish on a home built cat may not be as good as a production boat, but the quality of construction would IMO usually be much better.

For instance, on my boat EVERY bulkhead is glued and glassed in, on both sides. On many production boats they are only held in with sika. Even the major ones. I've seen hull/deck joins open up on a production boat, again only sika'd together. My hull deck join is heavily glassed both sides.

And you can build a boat of a type you couldn't buy. My boat's SA/Disp ratio is actually slightly better than a Gunboat 48, but the boat cost a tiny fraction of what a Gunboat would have cost. Hell, it probably cost less than the SAILS for a Gunboat 48.
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Old 05-11-2013, 13:34   #63
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Re: It's fun to read you guys talking about picking new cats.

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And you can build a boat of a type you couldn't buy. My boat's SA/Disp ratio is actually slightly better than a Gunboat 48, but the boat cost a tiny fraction of what a Gunboat would have cost. Hell, it probably cost less than the SAILS for a Gunboat 48.
But did it cost you less to build than a production boat would have been to buy?

I think a gunboat is constructed from carbon-composite. That's a lot of additional cost and means that the costs are not comparable, even if the performance is comparable. Also, I believe that gunboats have very finely finished interiors that a home-builder would find difficult to match.

Did you build with a lot of used parts? If so, then you should price compare with a used boat.

Certainly if you intend to build a custom design from exotic materials built to suit a specific purpose, then you would not compare it to a factory built boat made from common materials built to suit a different purpose.
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Old 05-11-2013, 21:50   #64
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Re: It's fun to read you guys talking about picking new cats.

I did not say time was free for everyone, but it is for many people,
and the OP specifically was quiting his job.

If you are making $100k+/year, then by all means, keep working and save until you can buy the $200k boat.

Building a boat is mostly labor, material cost varies A LOT depending on what/how you build and what you buy.
In fact, given 'everyone' is buying and 'nobody' building, despite popular opinion, building big cats looks like a great profitable opportunity!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtM View Post
There are a benefits to building your own sailboat, but I disagree with both your main points:
1) Time is not free. It might be cheap for some people, but it is not cheap for everyone, and it certainly is not free.
2) I thought the record pretty clearly shows that building a boat is not cheaper than buying one - certainly not when one considers finished build quality.

On Point 1, the value of a person's time can be raised, then the output of that time (income) can be turned to purchasing someone else's time - ideally someone whose time is less expensive, and whose skills make him more effective - e.g. get a good paying job, and buy a french-made catamaran

On Point 2, perhaps I am badly mistaken, but my recollection of every boat-building or boat-renovating story I've ever heard is that it was colossally expensive. Many have found it a worthwhile venture for the experience and knowledge gained, but cost savings does not appear to be a benefit of building.
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Old 06-11-2013, 04:40   #65
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Re: It's fun to read you guys talking about picking new cats.

Getting a little heavy on the economics. The main reason I decided or build a boat is that I kinda wanted to and employment prospects in my area were not great.

I also assume selling my boat at some stage in a better market than the US perhaps New Zealand or OZ both places are much more accepting of paying decent money for quality home built boats. But based on what a similar sister ship sold for in Florida, I'll be "paying" myself about 25K a year to build the boat.

Now, I had the money to go and buy any boat I wanted within reason, but would rather be at home near my wife and kids than slaving at some sucky job for 2-3 years for nearly the same money. I plan to do some long term cruising again, but not until my daughter was older.

I also could have gone back for a master or PA training but that of course would have cost 25K a year and I would have been away from home a lot and of course would have felt like I needed to get a return on that investment by getting a nice job for many years instead of going cruising.

Someday, if my health was good I would have been able to purchase and insure that gunboat.........
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Old 06-11-2013, 13:04   #66
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Re: It's fun to read you guys talking about picking new cats.

Quote:
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But did it cost you less to build than a production boat would have been to buy?

I think a gunboat is constructed from carbon-composite. That's a lot of additional cost and means that the costs are not comparable, even if the performance is comparable. Also, I believe that gunboats have very finely finished interiors that a home-builder would find difficult to match.

Did you build with a lot of used parts? If so, then you should price compare with a used boat.

Certainly if you intend to build a custom design from exotic materials built to suit a specific purpose, then you would not compare it to a factory built boat made from common materials built to suit a different purpose.
My boat cost less than the cheapest French production catamaran I can think of. Much less. A bit over half. And it's bigger. And there is no comparison in in construction quality, even less in sailing performance.

There are no used parts.

The point about Gunboats etc is exactly what I'm saying. Production boats see to be either charter oriented - maximum beds, heads and space for the dollar - or if more performance oriented are horrendously expensive. If you build, you can have a good performing boat cheap. Which AFAIK, is something you can't buy.
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Old 06-11-2013, 14:20   #67
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Re: It's fun to read you guys talking about picking new cats.

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My boat cost less than the cheapest French production catamaran I can think of. Much less. A bit over half. And it's bigger. And there is no comparison in in construction quality, even less in sailing performance.

There are no used parts.
Ok, I think this is the first time I've heard that homebuilding a high quality boat is cheaper than a factory model, so I appreciate you sharing that info.
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Old 06-11-2013, 14:49   #68
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Re: It's fun to read you guys talking about picking new cats.

44Cs boat is so cool. Post those pics again.
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Old 06-11-2013, 15:15   #69
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Re: It's fun to read you guys talking about picking new cats.

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Stop buying brand new cars! Terrible waste of money! Best of luck with your plans.
++++++1!

This is SO true. People look at the photo of our boat on my desk at work and ask how I can afford such a luxury.

I point to all of the cars in the carpark that cost more than my boat and ask "How can people afford a luxury like those!? You can't take a holiday in them, they don't have a bathroom, a kitchen or even a decent bedroom. If the house burns down you can't live in them, AND they are ALL, without exception, depreciating in value ten times faster than our boat."

I drive a ute that cost me a week's worth of take home pay, it's not very nice, and the aircon barely copes, but I sit in it for maybe four to five hours a week, whereas I can LIVE in our boat.

Matt
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Old 06-11-2013, 15:18   #70
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Re: It's fun to read you guys talking about picking new cats.

I was building a 40 foot steel cat. Total cost would have been around $200,000-00,

But money was a big problem, It was going to take years,

So when I sold my second house and had the money in my hand, I bought a second hand Cat instead,
I want to go sailing now, So I did, My eye sight is failing, So if I want to sail, its now, I am not going out there if I cant see very well,

Working Full time on my Cat would take six months to finish, With cash in hand,

My own design, Built for my own purposes, and what I wanted to do in it, Nothing like it on this planet,
Practising Engineer, By the way, Not a theoretical one,
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Old 06-11-2013, 17:26   #71
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Re: It's fun to read you guys talking about picking new cats.

I once saw a steel trimaran, appropriately named IRON BUTTERFLY. I can only imagine the sailing characteristics of a steel catamaran. The owner, also, designed this craft himself without outside consultation. Best of luck in your endeavor.
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Old 06-11-2013, 19:07   #72
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Re: It's fun to read you guys talking about picking new cats.

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I once saw a steel trimaran, appropriately named IRON BUTTERFLY. I can only imagine the sailing characteristics of a steel catamaran. The owner, also, designed this craft himself without outside consultation. Best of luck in your endeavor.
There is a little bit more to my story than meets the eye,
Engineering Blacksmith by Trade, fully qualified Engineer,
Master craft of all the Black trades, I cant put a shoe on a horse, We didnt have horses,
Shipwright, Forger, Welder,
In Tech school, Science, We designed a 3 pot steam engine, Then all the gearing for it, Propshaft, Propellor was in Bronze and 6 metres in Diameter,
Nearly fifty years of working and repairing ships down to little boats,
I am a recognised welder and Boilermaker with LLoyds of London ships surveyors. for over 40 years,
I make commercial industrial Propellors 4 metres in diameter, 5 or 6 tons in each,
My 28 inch Propellors are toys for me to build,

Sitting in a speed boat, half cabin fishing boat, Fishing, in the straight between Fraser Island and the Mainland,
Myself and two ship wrights, Anything that floated past, got ripped to peices and rebuilt,
It needed this or that to make it float and plane correctly, It was very entertaining, as to what people actually set forth from the shore in, Thats down right Scary,

So all this knowledge went into my boat, It doesnt have flaws, Its as unsinkable as humanly possible, 8 water tite bulkheads, Self righting in 5 metre tall waves,

Weighs 17 tons fully loaded, Wharfe with sails, Hahahahha, It has a Hull Speed of 54,
1250 square feet of main and jib,
But after sailing the Gemini, It will be all Genoa, I think,
37.5 Knots on one motor,
Its not slow,
What I design, I actually make, And I also write all the certificates out in my own name,

So Im not really your normal Fly by Nighter, Hahahahahahaha

The real reason I stopped building it in the first place, It became very easy,
Whoa, When things become that easy, Your making one hell of a blue some where, Stop. go back check your figures, Twiddle your thumbs,
Try sly underhanded tricks to upset your apple cart, Come in from different ways, Try and fault any thing,
Went around the world, Naval Architects, Google, Zombies shaking beads, the lot,
I could not fault my Barge, Every time I recalculated, It just got better,
I just didnt realise what my teachers had actually taught me, and the years of practical experience I have had to back it up,

But sailing now, Won out,
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Old 07-11-2013, 13:11   #73
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Re: It's fun to read you guys talking about picking new cats.

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44Cs boat is so cool. Post those pics again.
Thank you. Member Galleries - Cruisers & Sailing Photo Gallery

As I said before, the standard of finish of the interior isn't as pretty as a production boat, but the construction quality is IMO much better than most.

Also only my opinion, but I think the external finish is every bit as good as a production boat.

And a bit more than half the price of the cheapest French production cat I know of.
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Old 07-11-2013, 13:44   #74
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Re: It's fun to read you guys talking about picking new cats.

She is lovely mate, you have good reason to be proud. What has given me peace of mind with my build is the fact is i know how to fix it.
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