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Old 03-04-2015, 16:45   #1
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ISO Cat for Two. One Off's, Non Production, Little Known?

Choosing a Catamaran for two plus a few animals.

Below are my assumptions based on research that I may or may not suck at.

First and foremost one's sailing plans largely dictate how seaworthy a boat must be.

Second, age, health, and mechanical know how dictate size and age of the boat.

Third, the depth of your wallet along with your willingness to reach the bottom of it ultimately prevail over items one and two.

Lets address these assumptions first and then perhaps I can start visiting some potential boats based on you folks help and knowledge.

1. Currently my plans are to begin this journey in three years in Florida, and sail the Caribbean(read training grounds) and Mexico for a few years. However, just incase the bug bites I'm willing to entertain the idea of a circumnavigation. Also worth mention/discussion. The possibility of buying here in California and sailing the Sea of Cortez. Honestly, that idea scares me as Im afraid I would then want to attempt a pacific crossing.

2. I'm 34, the wife is 25, the cats are fat, the dog is a sissy. Aside from a catch in my back occasionally we are generally healthy. I am employed as a Field Service Engineer repairing MRI's CT's, and Nuclear Medicine Cameras. That said I'm equally comfortable with a wrench or multi-meter in hand. I also stand at 6'2'' so the ability to move about the boat without stooping would be a huge plus for me.

3. The wallet. We are in respect to the cruising world quite young so, the cruising kitty isn't so large. I'll detail as much as I am comfortable with on the internet and see where you folks point me.

Id like to find a boat that's ticks all the boxes for under $200k (wishful thinking) If I absolutely must and I mean must, I will consider raising the purchase budget. No mater what the boat costs, my planned per month budget stays the same at around $2500 per month including boat repairs.


Now comes the part where you guys beat me up with a baseball bat turned from a reality tree.

I'd like to have....

Over 35 feet as I understand smaller can get pretty squirrelly
Proper up to date safety equipment
Modernish nav and radar
watermaker so I don't carry a ton of water and can still shower often
Outboards since I've repaired many, little diesel and no saildrive experience
A reasonable amount of freeboard
Minimum draft for skinny water
A non charter design as I don't want 4 fracking heads!!
A decent sail plan
Not look like it was designed/built by a cross eyed hillbilly

I've researched most all the standard production boats you normally see recommended in "what boat should I get?" threads. None of them excite me. So CF community, what one off's, small production, little known type boats might I start looking into? They need to meet criteria 1,2, and 3 and at lease a few of the want to have list.


Timeline: Non urgent, we can wait for the right deal. We have set the sail date from just slightly over 3 years from today.

Thanks for your thoughts,
Juston
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Old 03-04-2015, 19:47   #2
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Re: ISO Cat for Two. One Off's, Non Production, Little Known?

Pdq 36, or a Seawind 1160 if you can find in your price range, unless you change your mind on diesels

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Old 03-04-2015, 21:28   #3
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Re: ISO Cat for Two. One Off's, Non Production, Little Known?

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Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos View Post
Pdq 36, or a Seawind 1160 if you can find in your price range, unless you change your mind on diesels

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Hey Dulcesuenos,

Thanks for the suggestion. I've been keeping an eye on the PDQ36. I can't seem to find info on headroom though. Maybe I ican find an owner to ask.

As for the Seawind 1160. I like the mechanism used for raising and lowering the motors a lot. Can't say i'm a fan of the tiny saloon or the small fortune people are asking for them.

As for diesels. I suppose if I could find super low hour engines and newly rebuilt or replaced sail drives I could consider it. Oh and a Chiltons Manual!
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Old 03-04-2015, 22:15   #4
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Re: ISO Cat for Two. One Off's, Non Production, Little Known?

Gee Norm, given your list and time frame I would be building a nice 40'+ from a kit.
You would have all your list items including budget, as well as a brand new boat and rigging, sails, electronics etc and know it inside out.
How about a
http://www.schionningdesigns.com.au/arrow-1200111
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Old 03-04-2015, 22:56   #5
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Re: ISO Cat for Two. One Off's, Non Production, Little Known?

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Gee Norm, given your list and time frame I would be building a nice 40'+ from a kit.
You would have all your list items including budget, as well as a brand new boat and rigging, sails, electronics etc and know it inside out.
How about a
The Arrow 1200

Hey Monte,

Thanks for the reply. Most of my list is wants not needs. Perhaps I wasn't clear in my writing of it.

As for the link you provided. Holy moley!!! There must be 50 boat options listed there. I wouldn't even know where to begin in choosing one of those kits. How many thousands of hours of construction are we talking about? Any users of this forum built one that you know of?
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Old 03-04-2015, 23:26   #6
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Re: ISO Cat for Two. One Off's, Non Production, Little Known?

Yeah 44cruisingcat on here built a similar one in 5000 hrs by himself for under 200K
That kit would probably be faster given it's all flat panels, and I'd probably do the 13.5m arrow. Keep in mind the comparisons between say a lagoon 400 and the 45' arrow are
Arrow is longer but same width
Arrow is 6000kg, L400 is 10000 kg
Sail area and rigging similar
Arrow payload half the L400
Arrow should be quite a bit better performance
Arrow amenities would be much less than a L380
New finished cost would be around the same as a new L380, except you would spend 5000hrs to complete the arrow
I'm just using those examples as fairly extreme ends of the scale, ie, weight/ performance/ cost
For us a L380 ticked all our boxes, as did a L400, and a home built 45-50' cat might also if I decided to invest the time, although at this stage I'm pretty spoiled by the comforts of a 10t cat and would find it hard to sacrifice those for speed.
I've spent quite a bit of time privately and professionally building yachts and it's a major undertaking to build one, especially as a couple, but with a 3 yr plan and a list of preferences that excludes most production cats it might be worth considering and something real to sink your teeth into over the next few years, along with jumping on other peoples boats for experience and doing some sail training/study etc.
A new boat is going to drastically reduce ongoing maintainance costs and upgrades, whether you self build of buy production.
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Old 04-04-2015, 00:09   #7
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Re: ISO Cat for Two. One Off's, Non Production, Little Known?

Woah. 5000 hours.... That's unrealistic for me in 3 years. But, at least now I have some new one off boat names to keep an eye out for on the second hand market. Thanks Monte.
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Old 04-04-2015, 00:39   #8
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Re: ISO Cat for Two. One Off's, Non Production, Little Known?

I might say make sure you avoid more frequent back issues by having porper standing head room. If you don't I would put money after a few months you'll be curled up moaning on a berth unable to push the (fat) cats over to get enough room to stretch out. Not a minor issue in my experience.
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Old 04-04-2015, 04:58   #9
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Re: ISO Cat for Two. One Off's, Non Production, Little Known?

Smj has an exceptionally nice well priced pdq 36 for sale here in classifieds, you wont find a cleaner one,, he is also tall, over 6ft i believe. Maybe reach out to him about the height question. As for diesels, pros and cons but if you change your minda Maxim 380 is a nice boat for the money.

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Old 04-04-2015, 05:26   #10
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Re: ISO Cat for Two. One Off's, Non Production, Little Known?

We went with a Gemini to meet your description for well under your budget. Easy to work on and many are outboard powered (thats what we have). Generally simple systems and easy to maintain.

I'm 6'2". There are a couple places you have to duck but once you get used to it, headroom crouching isn't really an issue.

I would say anywhere from $40-150k should get you a boat in nice condition. Just depends how old you want to go.

Other similar boats:
- Endeavor 36 (closer to that $200k number) but even better for comfortable living (there is also a 30 anda 34 to consider)
- Catalac: 8m & 9m: A little less comfortable for a big guy but not bad. Lower on the price point and a bit older but solidly built. They have a 10m that is closer to the endeavor for interior living accomodations.
- PDQ 32. The ones I've seen are nice but a bit pricey.

Reality is with $200k, you can probably move up into the 38-40' range.

Age tells you little regarding how much work you need to do to maintain a boat. In fact I would say an older boat is probably a little easier. If you pluck down the big bucks on a shiney new boat, you will probably feel obliged to keep her shiney and new looking. If you buy an older boat with a few dings and scratches, you don't expect to keep her in like new conditions (though with not much more work than the new boat you can bring her back).
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Old 04-04-2015, 09:28   #11
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Re: ISO Cat for Two. One Off's, Non Production, Little Known?

Take a look at catamaran site they have one offs and others occasionally.
Catalac Catamarans, An Affordable Cruising Catamaran
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Old 04-04-2015, 10:05   #12
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Re: ISO Cat for Two. One Off's, Non Production, Little Known?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brob2 View Post
I might say make sure you avoid more frequent back issues by having porper standing head room. If you don't I would put money after a few months you'll be curled up moaning on a berth unable to push the (fat) cats over to get enough room to stretch out. Not a minor issue in my experience.
Thanks Brob2,

Head room is on my "must have" list not my "want list".
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Old 04-04-2015, 10:21   #13
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Re: ISO Cat for Two. One Off's, Non Production, Little Known?

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Originally Posted by Imprezza72 View Post
Take a look at catamaran site they have one offs and others occasionally.
Catalac Catamarans, An Affordable Cruising Catamaran
Thanks

Favorited the site.
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Old 04-04-2015, 11:20   #14
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Re: ISO Cat for Two. One Off's, Non Production, Little Known?

Beneteau blue II, if it's still available.


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Old 04-04-2015, 12:26   #15
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Re: ISO Cat for Two. One Off's, Non Production, Little Known?

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Beneteau blue II, if it's still available.


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Have you sailed one of these? I'm curious to hear a report.
I remember Richard Woods comments, which weren't too favorable.
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