Is World Cruising Safe on a Cat?

[Factor]

Heres another blog which may actually address the original question

mustang sally

and another Ocelot Blog

and another swingin on a star

Hopefully they will give the Original Poster some real and valid information about his question.

[Tropic Cat]

Originally Posted by sneuman

Rick, my points are thus:

1) Anyone can post in any forum, just as you have posted criticism of monos in the monohull forum (yes, I checked your claim).

Not true. the only times I've ever commented was tongue in cheek and usually after one of these exchanges. I just don't post here enough for this to be a factor. Nor do I care what kind of boat anyone owns. Each has their advantages.

Originally Posted by sneuman

2) I have experience on cruising cats -- two week-long cruises in the Gulf of Thailand. That doesn't qualify me to have an opinion?

Of course it does. What does this have to do with the issue. Was it your post I had a problem with? No. If you're determined to do this, get your facts straight.

Originally Posted by sneuman

2)3) You explicitly impugned the good work of the moderators here (and it isn't the first time).

Gosh that's true. Then again, I call them like I see them. If you bother to actually go back through my posting history, you will see a note that notes the multihull area now has more activity than any other, yet there is still a lack of moderators who own multihulls. If there were, these multihull attacks wouldn't stand on their own Merritt and this forum would avoid the distractions. Andy did not disagree and promised to address this.

My best friends own monos and I have nothing against them. Yet this isn't the point now is it. The point is that people attack and disparage multihull boats on the Cruisers Forum. Even when they have no experience with them. These attacks are allowed and protected here.

Now what would happen if a person dropped himself into a navigation light thread and insisted that the green light goes to port. Would this stand?

That multihulls are a proven ocean going design is in fact my point. Attacks should be curtailed, If they were these exchanges would end instantly.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by sneuman

As for speed, it is interesting to note that a certain famous catamaran couple claimed to be averaging about 4 knots half-way through their circumnavigation (from a log entry in New Zealand):

Overall I would guess that our average wind speed for the entire trip so far would be somewhere around 8-10 knots. And as a little side note, our average speed on passages of over 2 days was only 4 knots.

bumfuzzle jan 2005

Actually, the Bumfuzzles story is a pretty compelling answer to the original question.

A young couple, with absolutely ZERO experience, bought a smallish, ex charter catamaran, one which wouldn't be many people's first choice of boat, and successfully and SAFELY sailed it round the world.

And, as you point out, at around 50% wind speed. On a trade wind circumnavigation in a 35' boat, that's not so bad.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Joli

Cruising Cat 44. Show us the passage logs where cruising cats are sailing over 200 miles day in and day out. Thats all..

And I never claimed to have done it day in, day out. As I said, it was a 350nm passage. However I WILL say we could easily have done it faster. We were sailing conservatively, slowing down at night and aiming at arriving at dawn rather than in the middle of the night.

Here's a blog of another Oram boat which did passages of 256, 214, 247, and 223 miles on consecutive days, from Vanuatu to Mackay. Vanuatu Part 6

Originally Posted by Joli

I can show you 14's all day long on our mono or show you high teens in a big breeze but I can't show you 200 mile a day, day in and day out, when cruising our boat. We don't cruise the way we race and I would be surpised if many couples do. Who cares to deal with 3500 sq ft kites at 3 in the morning when it's just me and the missus, we are happy to make a decent speed and be comfortable.

"Drumbeat" sailed under reefed main and jib. No huge spinnaker. IIRC they didn't even own a spinnaker at the time. And if you read the report, they actually took it easy, due in part to a leaking, damaged portlight.

Originally Posted by Joli

Let us read your logs passage notes when you launch. Hopefull it's soon and you enjoy your boat for many years.

Back to the OP question. Yes you will be safe and I hope you have fun.

I was wondering why it seemed so incredible to you that a 40 foot boat could average 8 knots even over a relatively short 350nm passage. But then maybe to a monohull sailor, it just is.

[catty]

Originally Posted by Joli

Cruising Cat 44. Show us the passage logs where cruising cats are sailing over 200 miles day in and day out. Thats all.

I can show you 14's all day long on our mono or show you high teens in a big breeze but I can't show you 200 mile a day, day in and day out, when cruising our boat. We don't cruise the way we race and I would be surpised if many couples do. Who cares to deal with 3500 sq ft kites at 3 in the morning when it's just me and the missus, we are happy to make a decent speed and be comfortable.

Let us read your logs passage notes when you launch. Hopefull it's soon and you enjoy your boat for many years.

Back to the OP question. Yes you will be safe and I hope you have fun.

It appears as though the gunboat 48 is incapable of regular 200 mile plus days in racing trim. So most mere mortals stand no chance of achieving this whilst cruising.

Getting back to safety, would it help if we made a list of cruising catamaran capsizes from recent years, so an informed decision can be made?

If you like I'll start the ball rolling?

1/ schionning 1160 capsized in the UK in 2006 in quite benign conditions..
2/ lightwave 35(extended at stern) capsized whilst motoring across a bar .
3/ fusion 40 fell over in NZ on a day sail.
4/ quequeg sadly capsized during storm in Indian ocean.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Actually, the Bumfuzzles story is a pretty compelling answer to the original question.

A young couple, with absolutely ZERO experience, bought a smallish, ex charter catamaran, one which wouldn't be many people's first choice of boat, and successfully and SAFELY sailed it round the world.

And, as you point out, at around 50% wind speed. On a trade wind circumnavigation in a 35' boat, that's not so bad.

Not bad for a similar-sized monohull either (even my Tayana 37 could manage it), but quite a come down for a crew on a cat, which might otherwise expect to average 200nm/day.

[Scott730]

I have first hand experience with both mono's and multi's and have delivered more than a few boats in my time (not just a 2 week charter in Thailand). My last delivery was a brand new 46 foot leopard from Roadtown BVI to Miami, around 1400 nm. No extra sails just the factory supplied main and head sail. With winds averaging 20 to 25 knots on starboard quarter most of the time and pulling in 2 reef points for 80% of the trip we did it in 6.5 days, over 200 nm per day, on the average, and this is not unusual for a deliver like this. I also delievered a 40' monohull from BVI to Miami, similar conditions, in 10 days. And we were eating cold meals the whole trip.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by sneuman

Not bad for a similar-sized monohull either (even my Tayana 37 could manage it), but quite a come down for a crew on a cat, which might otherwise expect to average 200nm/day.

Perhaps I should demand that you show me some kind of log to prove it.

Also, it seems to be the mono crowd who are expecting 200 mile days from 35 foot ex charter cats, sailed by complete novices. Weird.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by catty

2/ lightwave 35(extended at stern) capsized whilst motoring across a bar

.
You keep telling this lie and I will keep calling you on it. It didnt capsize and a 38 is not a 35 (extended at the stern), are you wilfully telling porkies for some sort of fun, or ??

How about we measure safety by deaths. How many dead multihullers recently - say the last 10 years or so. I can think of at least 12 dead monohullers.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by Scott730

I have first hand experience with both mono's and multi's and have delivered more than a few boats in my time (not just a 2 week charter in Thailand). My last delivery was a brand new 46 foot leopard from Roadtown BVI to Miami, around 1400 nm. No extra sails just the factory supplied main and head sail. With winds averaging 20 to 25 knots on starboard quarter most of the time and pulling in 2 reef points for 80% of the trip we did it in 6.5 days, over 200 nm per day, on the average, and this is not unusual for a deliver like this. I also delievered a 40' monohull from BVI to Miami, similar conditions, in 10 days. And we were eating cold meals the whole trip.

for the record, those were not charters in Thailand, but deliveries; I happen to have a good friend in Thailand who is a delivery skipper and when time allowed, I would crew for him. In any case, we did nicely on both occasions, with bursts of speed on the right point of sail and in the right conditions. Overall, however, I don't think we did much better than would have been expected on a monohull.

Did I ever feel the boats were unseaworthy or out of control? No, though on one of them the "escape hatch" on one hull would not stop gushing water -- no danger though.

Did I dislike the motion? Not overly so, but I did find the upwind pounding (through a mere 4-foot chop) to be less than ideal and not as comfortable as on a well-found mono. It didn't even take me that long to realize the boat would remain intact despite the intermittent KABOOM! under the bridge deck.

What I did learn is that a multi is not the panacea everyone advertises -- it's just another kind of boat with some advantages and some drawbacks. In other words, I didn't find "catamaran religion" out there on the Gulf of Thailand.

[imagine2frolic]

-- it's just another kind of boat with some advantages and some drawbacks. __________________

Something I have said all along. I realize my cat's weakness, and I work around that just like any other boat owner will try to do. The cruising cat was meant to be sailed with the wind on the quarter. Take a mono, and a cat of same length. Sail the tradewinds, and see whose comfort is best. The tradewinds is where most of us want to sail. Even if the speed is the same. The cat is going to get you there more relaxed, and oh the view, and comfort once you arrive, and you have arrived with a lot more room, and privacy for guest........i2f

[Scott730]

sneuman
As you correctly stated, "multi's are not the panacea everyone advertises" and I or none of the other posts here are even suggesting that they are. To each is own. I'm just tired of the general comments that they are not sea worthy. I see no positive aspects in posts that trash any kind of design unless they have hard fact to support that position. It does get tiring having to reply to posts that are blantantly false, that some people that are new to this forum might take as factual. I really wish it would just stop. If someone really doesn't like Catamarans, fine. But for us that do, please leave us alone.

[meyermm]

Interesting about Multi's doing much more motoring. A few issues back of Cruising Helmsman an Australian publication a readers article was published regarding cruising New Caledonia. Interestingly it seemed unless the sea was flat and very little wind they were always motor sailing! The reason seemed to me more about the crew than the vessel. From what I see and hear most Cat owners like the idea of sailing but not the reality (work). In the latest edition of the same Mag. a multi page story about cats, design, good and bad points + input from long time cat sailors. They all seem to agree that beating in anything other than mild wind is to be avoided which is something I had not heard before. The last not insignificant poit is they are damned expensive to buy, marina fees are much higher, many have two engines to maintain etc etc. For the price of a cruisng cat you could own a very large and comfortable (safe) monohull?

[imagine2frolic]

safe? that was in jest correct? I can only believe you are making fun, and do not truly believe comfortable unless you like rolling? Peterson is a fine vessel, but it just isn't the cat's meow, lmao. Just what length would you consider a large and comfortable (safe) monohull?

Most of us know we consider our vessels family, and we at times loves them dearly. You wouldn't walk up to a man on the street who is a complete stranger, and tell him that his wife looks like she has been beat with the ugly stick now would you? I am sure you would at least expect some harsh words if not a blackeye. I just wonder why some people are rude enough to disrespect my choice in my mistress? At least mine has 2 legs...all kidding aside now. It's comments like that that get these mono vs multi all excited.....i2f

[dana-tenacity]

Another multihull delivery

Squid Sails the Indian Ocean Part One