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Old 16-05-2015, 14:01   #91
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pirate Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

An Iroquois Mk1.. here in Marina Capitana, Sardegna... complete with original anti-flip device..

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Old 16-05-2015, 14:15   #92
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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An Iroquois Mk1.. here in Marina Capitana, Sardegna... complete with original anti-flip device..

Could be a CIA listening post. Hope it serves as a radar reflector as well cos not much room left up there.

Surprised how relatively small it is actually. Well spotted!

I am guessing a big cata-lagoon would need a bouncy castle up top.
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Old 16-05-2015, 14:32   #93
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Outremer does a "light" version which may be has its wings clipped a little less than most cruising cats.

http://www.catamaran-outremer.com/en...remer-55-light
Interesting that you mentioned it because I was looking at it the same time you posted about it... spooky ! )
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Old 16-05-2015, 14:42   #94
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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for the epic Golden Globe Race, Donald Crowhurst had developped a righting. system..he became so obsess about flipping it in the roaring forty that he jumped overboard instead of going to the 40's!!!??
i guess that solved any problem of flipping it...!!!??
very good read.

boats have no eyes and brain, so they usually make it...in most cases...! but with fear and human error the story end-up differently.

anyway a bad day at sea is a bad a sea, what ever is your ride.

sorry for saying not much with this all....
I watched a doc about it.. I might pick up the book because I enjoyed the story. There will be some nice detail in the book. He planned to come home second as I recall so his logs would not be read through but the boat ahead floundered and he found himself first in his own slow race. He nearly got away with it.

Did they find a suicide note? or just assumed because of the discovery of his real Log book. fascinating what people are willing to do.
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Old 16-05-2015, 14:43   #95
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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If they indeed quote a higher price for a cat than a mono, this probably reflects more on hull material and thickness than on number of hulls. For a trip to the Arctic or the NW passage where one is likely to encounter ice, I expect an insurance company might favor a steel hulled mono over a composite hull cat. Apples and hubcaps.

Back in the day there were some attempts at designing multihulls that had the capacity for self righting. I recall one trimaran design that was launched upside down and then righted before carrying on. In the end though, I believe most designers concluded that the risks of capsize were so low and so preventable that they focused their efforts elsewhere. If you feel a cat is right for you then by all means get a cat, sail conservatively and you should be fine, even in high latitudes. But don't hit any ice.
To open up,"a crock of ****" tris and cats are entirely two different animals. I guess there are pros and cons for both. Both can be called multihulls but that is about it.
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Old 16-05-2015, 14:57   #96
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
An Iroquois Mk1.. here in Marina Capitana, Sardegna... complete with original anti-flip device..

Damn, I was going to ask if anyone remembered that. Thanks, although a complete turtle might be better. It wasn't a Hobi. How on earth would you right it?
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Old 16-05-2015, 15:02   #97
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Damn, I was going to ask if anyone remembered that. Thanks, although a complete turtle might be better. It wasn't a Hobi. How on earth would you right it?
I think that was never really thought out..
Good marketing gimmick tho'... I'm old enough to remember when they first came out..
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Old 16-05-2015, 15:11   #98
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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To open up,"a crock of ****" tris and cats are entirely two different animals. I guess there are pros and cons for both. Both can be called multihulls but that is about it.
Tris better for trailering in the 20ft and up class, it turns around again about 30ft as cats have more stability, less likely to bury a hull in more offshore conditions
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Old 16-05-2015, 15:25   #99
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

The most definitive account I can find..

Would be more practical for cat or mono use though because there is less angle to be concerned with and you may not have to flood a hull.

Capsize Prevention System Article Shame it has not been explored more.
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Old 16-05-2015, 15:25   #100
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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he also had 800+mm bridgedeck clearance, the problem these days is that no standing headroom in pocket cruisers just inst an acceptable marketing position, and for a business proposition as a builder you would go broke trying it.

On a more positive note, I think more emphasis could be put into anti-slamming as a technology. Refining clearance with asymmetric hulls, hull chines, venturi effect air water ducting and hull aperture sockets might just make a better compromise enabling boat lengths in the low 30s to become a viable offshore alternative. Well maybe...
I don't understand your point about Catalacs. Isn't the subject flipping cats over? Here's a design nobody has ever flipped over, and your response is to dismiss that , mention something else entirely and then say you're introducting a "more positive note" about bridge deck slamming?

Again, what has this got to do with capsizing? Seems About as apropos as the gel coat color or what type of anchor it's carrying.

This thread is starting to remind me of the people who will try to explain to you that some un named one else somewhere calculated that a bumblebee cannot fly. Therefore it must be true.

Do catamarans south of the equator flip to right side up? I've been thinking of getting me some of those logging boots with the spikes so I can keep on the top of my rapidly spinning catamaran.
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Old 16-05-2015, 15:49   #101
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

The original quedtion is quite simple...
> Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided

No!

WTF
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Old 16-05-2015, 15:55   #102
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

Here's my plan for saving a catamaran that has turned upside down (single-handed, in the middle of an ocean).

I have a rescue package that consists of some large inflatable balloons and rafts. First I move one of the balloons to the top of the mast (maybe using a halyard) and fill it up. If the mast is strong enough to turn the boat upside down, it may be strong enough to turn it also back. When the mast floats again (horizontal) I put some additional rafts below it and fill them. At some point the boat will turn itself upright again. Done.

P.S. I might use that rescue package also to save a sinking monohull (fill the balloons inside the hull).
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Old 16-05-2015, 15:58   #103
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

We will never see any system for self righting on any cat. Cruising cats flip so rarely it will never be cost effective to even spend the money on research, much less development. Would you spend extra on your next purchase to rite your cat? Or spend it on anouther few feet? Racing cats no way who wants the weight.
Entertaining read though. Want a saver hobby pick up needle point.

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Old 16-05-2015, 15:58   #104
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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I don't understand your point about Catalacs. Isn't the subject flipping cats over? Here's a design nobody has ever flipped over, and your response is to dismiss that , mention something else entirely and then say you're introducting a "more positive note" about bridge deck slamming?
direct correlation between slamming and bridgedeck clearance. Given a hull that has probably one of the best clearances, but also some of the most minimal cabin headroom, I posed the question is there a better compromise?

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Again, what has this got to do with capsizing? Seems About as apropos as the gel coat color or what type of anchor it's carrying.
actually people are fielding a fairly wide range of sub-topics, my point was that in todays world the Catalac set of compromises wouldnt run in the production marketing sense. Its therefore not a viable alternative unless like you they live in a one problem one solution world.

so no, they dont go over, but they are unlikely to be duplicated anymore or anytime soon. Is that the answer you wanted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canibul
This thread is starting to remind me of the people who will try to explain to you that some un named one else somewhere calculated that a bumblebee cannot fly. Therefore it must be true.
Looked at in the conventional sense of mass, wing area, lift co-efficient, drag and airspeed bumblebees seem as if they could never fly and it was a long standing conundrum of flight until it was scientifically researched and explained. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0111082100.htm

Bumblebees have a wing action more more like sculling a boat and depend heavily on vortex generated lift plus forward momentum to fly. This in an environment where the stickiness of the medium theyre flying is more more like an aircraft flying through treacle witnessed by the calculated reynolds numbers.

yes but then, YOU asked.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canibul
Do catamarans south of the equator flip to right side up? I've been thinking of getting me some of those logging boots with the spikes so I can keep on the top of my rapidly spinning catamaran.
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Old 16-05-2015, 16:19   #105
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

Hi,

The challenge of self righting a capsized catamaran is not as difficult a task as perhaps first perceived. We spent a lot of time on safety issues in the early days of my design career. It does have to start at the design stage.

Thirty years ago we built a 36ft. cruising catamaran which we capsized on a lake in Sandwich in Kent. The righting system was automatic to a large extent, invented by the owner Gunther Ulrich. Capsized she floated on the saloon top and the bows. Valves in the bows were opened and she began to rotate. The secret is to arrange for the buoyancy to remain offset from the center of gravity as she rotates to flip past the 90 degrees. At that point the rotation continues with the water flowing out of the bow compartments. Stopping at about 30 degree from full floatation, then pumps are employed.

This system was on similar to one we had previously fitted to a tri. which involved pumping all of the water. Gunthers system depended on no floatation built into the bows, which would be too much of a compromise for most cat owners. The system we used on the tri (not tested) applies equally to a cruising cat, with relatively little compromise or cost in the overall picture. Flotation needs to be positioned to provide the axis of rotation and water tight doors etc. Obviously, this is not dependent on the rig being in place. We got so little interest at the time, we did not take further.

However, with a few cat losses recently we are considering going back to offering this and the survival compartment design we can also offer. There is very little compromise to arrange an aft cabin for survival.

Yes - what about big seas etc. Some day perhaps a cat will capsize and sail home - and then we will know.

Happy boating,

Derek.
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